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Milkman or is he????

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  • Milkman or is he????

    Hi On a birth Cerf (child born 1945 but now deceased) I have fathers occup as PTC 6780541 A.C.C. (milk roundsman) I have search all the Army records with no luck, and am wondering what A.C.C stands for as milk roundsman is in brackets, I am now wondering if the above number is something to do with his occup as Milkman and not Army records....am really confused not, has anyone any suggestions....:(...Lilly

  • #2
    The bit in brackets (milk roundsman) is his usual peacetime occupation, so I would think ACC is something to do with his wartime service, otherwise that would be inside the brackets too.

    OC

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    • #3
      ACC = Army Catering Corps, so the number is probably a service number and he delivered milk on Army bases. Not sure about PTC though.
      Last edited by PeteW1959; 10-03-14, 10:27.
      Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
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      • #4
        thanks OC, thats reassuring to know. it what I also thought...just can't see to find any thing about this guy. its seems that his son was adopted, yet i am sure i can find this man and wife on the electoral rolls until at least 1951, so am wondering why they had him adopted....it also has 45 next to the mother name (who registed the birth) am wondering if that is her age! and they thought they were to old to rise a child...so many unanswered questions...lol....Lilly

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        • #5
          Originally posted by PeteW1959 View Post
          ACC = Army Catering Corps, so the number is probably a service number and he delivered milk on Army bases. Not sure about PTC though.
          Oh thank you thank you lol....that is a very good idea and somewhere to start........Lilly

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          • #6
            I thought that the bit in brackets was the civilian occupation?

            Lilly

            I'm sure mother's ages weren't put onto birth certs, were they? Perhaps the mother was ill, or handicapped in some way and wasn't able to raise the child herself - there was no help back then. I still have nightmares about a family I knew in the 1960s - mother had epilepsy and eventually the authorities took her three children away from her and put them up for adoption.

            OC

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            • #7
              Oh Oc I just don't know......on looking closer (with my glasses on its not 45 but a.e mother's initals..:( anyway have searched the electoral rolls and found then on the 1934 together almost up to 1952! father not about in 1945 when baby born, but guess he could have been at work....wondering now, if mum was 'playing away from home' but we have father name on the cerf, but I guess they did that then...oh, and yes the milkman in brackets was I thought his civilian occupation, but maybe not...really stuck now...:(...Lol...Lilly...ps I waited over 13 weeks for this darn cerf, and she couldn't even write it out very clear......grrrrr

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              • #8
                Does it say adopted on the certificate?

                You may be right about the child being a cuckoo, that would seem the obvious reason for an adoption. Sadly, that happened quite a lot. I know two men both in their late 60s now, both born during the war when their mother's husband was away fighting. One was adopted away, the other was brought up by his mother and her husband. Both men had an awful childhood (the adopted one was adopted by a family member and was never allowed to forget how grateful he ought to be and the one brought up by his mother was never allowd to forget how grateful he ought to be!).

                OC

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                • #9
                  Oc Yes it does, I have the adoption papers somewhere! just wonder where the babies roots had come from originally...seems the parents lived together, as man and wife for many years, although I can't find a marriage anywhere, another mystery...the baby was told his parents had died in a car crash, he died believing that... baby's grandson who started all of this, is like a dog with a bone...lol...and wants to know more about his side of the tree, as he has all of mind...sad about your friends...the baby didn't have a great childhood either...his adopted mother was German (married to an english man! and was very very strict, she wouldn't even go to the baby funeral he was 51 because he had committed suicide and she was a strong roman catholic, should also mention he was born in 1945 and adopted in 1948...!!!...thanks for your help and thoughts...Lilly
                  Last edited by Lilly the flower; 10-03-14, 13:18.

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                  • #10
                    The more I read and hear first hand of early legal adoptions, the more cynical I become. Some terrible things were done to children, supposedly in their best interests, but actually in the interests of upholding public morals and the fate of child be damned. The most incredibly unsuitable people were allowed to adopt in the early years. One lady told me she was adopted by a couple who had previously adopted a little boy, but they didn't like him because he was messy, so they sent him back when he was FIVE and then adopted the girl. I could weep.


                    I hope your baby's grandson can get some answers.

                    OC

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                    • #11
                      not sure I'm reading this right ? but could you not apply for the fathers army records ?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
                        not sure I'm reading this right ? but could you not apply for the fathers army records ?
                        Looks like they could as there is a Next of Kin in the grandson.

                        Margaret

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                        • #13
                          good idea...lol...I have only a few days ago actually got the birth cerf which open up this can of worms...but yes I don't see why he couldn't, although he would have be patient, as I understand they can take a while to come though, but I guess I have enough imformation for him to apply.....i just knew you guys would came up with some good ideas......thanks... an after thought...... would he be able to do this as his surname is of the adopted parents, although we do have the adoption papers and birth cerf, do you think this would be enough...grandson has 'baby's adopted name on his birth cerf....lilly
                          Last edited by Lilly the flower; 10-03-14, 15:55.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lilly the flower View Post
                            good idea...lol...I have only a few days ago actually got the birth cerf which open up this can of worms...but yes I don't see why he couldn't, although he would have to patient, as I understand they can take a while to come though, but I guess I have enough imformation for him to apply.....i just knew you guys would came up with some good ideas......thanks...lilly
                            Yes, and if the baby was a 'cuckoo' that might be shown in his record as he might have needed leave to go home and sort things out.
                            Margaret

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                            • #15
                              ooooh Margaret....I am getting excited now.....can't wait to tell his grandson...Lilly

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                              • #16
                                There might be a problem getting records as next of kin, as adoption legally severs all ties to the birth family so legally he is not NOK and "adopted" on the birth cert would show this.
                                Judith passed away in October 2018

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                                • #17
                                  Agree with Judith, he is not legally related to his birth grandfather. However, I have read elsewhere that anyone can apply for army records of a deceased person. I'm not sure this will help anyway, as the army records are very unlikely to have any detail, just "compassionate leave" or something - remember the baby wasn't adopted until he was three, so may have been with birth mother for those years.

                                  OC

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                                  • #18
                                    Yes you can order the Army records, just had a check...I don't think the grandson really wants to know the details of why his father was adopted, he would just like a family tree, grandparents, greatgrandparents etc, just to see where he came from....what they were like...I did have a personal result while doing the Army record search. I found out if you had next of Kin ( my late father) who was part of the Arctic Convoys, which he was....I am as next of Kin, am intited to apply for a new Arctic Star medal...which was issued last year...so I have printed out the form, and its ready to go.....must get back to 'grandson' tree now, ......Lilly

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                                      There might be a problem getting records as next of kin, as adoption legally severs all ties to the birth family so legally he is not NOK and "adopted" on the birth cert would show this.
                                      I don't think the MOD go into such details and all they ask for is a death cert for the person concerned and a declaration of your relationship.
                                      Margaret

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                                        I don't think the MOD go into such details and all they ask for is a death cert for the person concerned and a declaration of your relationship.
                                        Margaret
                                        I think you might be right Margaret, i have done a good check on their web site and it seems possible only problem i might have, is the lack of a death cerf....lol...as I don't even know how old the father was....have email the babies grandson and ask him if he wants me/us lol to do any more digging as it has already gone down a different path...as in the parents were still alive in 1952...they were suppose to have died by 1948 or so the story go.!!!!!!!! a typical family tree....never straight forward is it....Lilly

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