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  • Japanese POW or not?

    My late Uncle,

    Ernest Rencella Wilson (1897-1957) Born Swansea, Wales 8/8/1897, Died London October 1957, was reputedly a Japanese POW for some of WW2, and worked on the Burma Railway.

    However, I am unable to find any definate evidence that this was the case.

    I have found his Medal Roll for WW1, when he served as a Midshipman in the RNR.

    In 1919 he was sent to Ireland, and served with the 'Black and Tans'.

    The next sighting of him is when he entered the UK from South America in 1939, on a list of 'Distressed Seamen'. (Taken from Incoming Passenger Lists on Ancestry).

    Assuming that he returned to the Navy during WW2, I have searched the various Databases that exist looking for him. He doesn't seem to be on the FEPOW Database.

    Ancestry have a listing for him on their Merchant Navy Seamen 1835-1941. (Mistranscribed as Ernest Revella Wilson).
    ernest revella Wilson born 8 aug 1897 Swansea ,
    from merchant navy seamen 1835 - 1941
    card type cr 10
    identity certificate number 32196
    series bt 350.

    I requested a Look-up of POW's on a Database held by the Thailand Burma Railway Center in Kanchanaburi, Thailand http://www.tbrconline.com/contact.htm & recieved this reply:

    'I have checked our Data Base for records on your late Uncle and the only
    Wilson that I have found in the British Navy is Ernest Wilson who was
    captured from the HMS Tapah and spent the war in Sumatra at Palembang.
    Could this be your Uncle' ?

    This is the info from on that Ernest Wilson from


    Surname: WILSON
    First Name(s): Ernest
    Rank: Stk. 2/c
    Service No: D/KX132275
    Service: N
    Date of Capture: 15/02/1942
    Ship: HMS Tapah
    Held: Sumatra (Palembang)

    However, having located and downloaded Ernest Rencella Wilson's WW2 Medal Roll from the National Archives Site, - the Service Numbers do not appear to match... there is also nothing on it to suggest he was a POW.

    My query is, - how do I proceed further? Is there any way of ascertaining if he was a Japanese POW or not?

    Cheers, Holly.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Holly; 28-02-14, 10:43.

  • #2
    When researching my uncle who was a POW - I mistakenly had his POW no and and not his Army No - could this be the discrepancy in your numbers?

    D/KX132275 is definitely a Naval No.
    Last edited by JBee; 28-02-14, 12:52.



    Researching Irish families: FARMER, McBRIDE McQUADE, McQUAID, KIRK, SANDS/SANAHAN (Cork), BARR,

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    • #3
      Originally posted by JBee View Post
      When researching my uncle who was a POW - I mistakenly had his POW no and and not his Army No - could this be the discrepancy in your numbers?

      D/KX132275 is definitely a Naval No.
      Many thanks for your reply.

      My problem is that on the WW2 Medal Roll for Ernest Rencella Wilson, his Service Number seems to be Wilson 1084349. And then there's another Number to the right of the Medals listed: 73361.

      Neither of these numbers bear any similarity to the Number given to Ernest Wilson POW at Palembang Camp.

      Or were Prisoners given a new POW Number? Is that what happened with your chap?

      Cheers, Holly.

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      • #4
        Is it the WW1 medal roll you have for him or WW2?
        I think his service number would be different in the two different wars, unless someone can correct me.
        My avatar is my Great Grandmother Emma Gumbert

        Sue at Langley Vale

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        • #5
          I am sure you are right Sue. Two different wars 25 years apart, the military number would have been different for each war.
          Vonny

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Vonny North West View Post
            I am sure you are right Sue. Two different wars 25 years apart, the military number would have been different for each war.
            Vonny
            Ok, I hadn't considered that the numbers would be different between WW1 and WW2.

            However, the WW2 Medal Roll for Ernest Rencella Wilson has the No: 1084349; which differs from the Ernest Wilson at Palembang Camp, - his no is given as D/KX132275.

            Or were POW's given a different no to the one on the WW2 Medal Rolls?

            Holly.

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            • #7
              Surely POWs would keep their number - weren't name rank and number the three identifying pieces of information that were given under the terms of the Geneva convention?

              Jay
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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              • #8
                Can't help on identifying whether that is your Ernest Wilson, however pow's in Indonesia from Sumatra were made to do forced labour, such as building airfields, air raid shelters, roads and railroads. Most people have only heard of the Burma Railroad so might have assumed it was that one.

                This site gives a lot of history about all the camps in Indonesia and what conditions were like. (It's in english)

                http://www.indischekamparchieven.nl/...island/sumatra
                Linda


                My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

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                • #9
                  That's what I thought too Jay...

                  On that basis I don't think that the Ernest Wilson in Palembang can be my late Uncle.

                  Holly.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for the Link Linda.

                    It's very perplexing... my late Uncle died in 1957, when I was a young child, - and so I can't ask him. My Mother says he most definately was a Japanese POW, - but I can't find him:-(

                    Holly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      have a look at this site you might get lucky
                      https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk...ilway&UnitName=

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                      • #12
                        and have you seen this there is loads of info on him just scroll down
                        Auxiliary Division Royal Irish Constabulary (ADRIC) Christmas card sent at Christmas 1921 by splendidly named Ernest Rencella Wilson intrigued by this item

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                        • #13
                          Have a look on this site, these are for all Japanese prisoners of war: https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk...-of-war/search
                          I did put a quick search in but the nearest ship name to Tapah is HMS Tamar which was in Hong Kong. Nobody by the name of Wilson came up for Palenbang.
                          Vonny

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
                            and have you seen this there is loads of info on him just scroll down
                            http://www.historyireland.com/20th-c...-from-ireland/
                            Funnily enough, I found that today too.

                            It fills in some of the 'missing years' for Ernest Rencella Wilson.

                            I can't see a way that I can reply to that Post though?

                            Holly.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A bit of information for HMS TAPAH http://skaphandrus.com/en/shipwrecks/12761-tapah
                              Lost by enemy action or destroyed to avoid capture at Singapore in Feb or Mar 1942

                              Vonny

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                              • #16
                                I was trying to click on that HistoryIreland link and now its saying its unavailable? can you access it

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Who is your uncles' next of kin? Do they have any of his army papers? He survived the war so he must have had a service record book which he would have brought back home with him once demobbed. Who has his war medals or have they never been collected? The next of kin can request them from the M.O.D, also a copy of his war record if they haven't one. A death certificate must be sent with the request, I'm not sure how much they charge for WW2 records, only death records and P.O.W'S are online, the remainder are with the M.O.D. If you are not the next of kin you cannot put in a request. It's a case of talking to family members and ask who is the N.O.K. and would they be willing to put in a request?
                                  It's just a thought.
                                  Vonny

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Vonny North West View Post
                                    A bit of information for HMS TAPAH http://skaphandrus.com/en/shipwrecks/12761-tapah
                                    Lost by enemy action or destroyed to avoid capture at Singapore in Feb or Mar 1942

                                    Vonny
                                    As the boat was sunk/scuttled in Feb/Mar 1942 (when Singapore was finally captured) and the other Ernest Wilson was in Japanese hands from Feb 1942, there does seem to be a 90% possibiity that he's the same one? POWS were transported all over Asia by the Japanese.

                                    Fall of Singapore: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peop...a1122391.shtml

                                    Your best bet is going to be to get his Naval records. HMS Tamar was a land base by the way, my father was stationed there from 1969-1971. The European males from the colony were transported all over.
                                    Caroline
                                    Caroline's Family History Pages
                                    Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Vonny North West View Post
                                      Who is your uncles' next of kin? Do they have any of his army papers? He survived the war so he must have had a service record book which he would have brought back home with him once demobbed. Who has his war medals or have they never been collected? The next of kin can request them from the M.O.D, also a copy of his war record if they haven't one. A death certificate must be sent with the request, I'm not sure how much they charge for WW2 records, only death records and P.O.W'S are online, the remainder are with the M.O.D. If you are not the next of kin you cannot put in a request. It's a case of talking to family members and ask who is the N.O.K. and would they be willing to put in a request?
                                      It's just a thought.
                                      Vonny
                                      Hi Vonny,

                                      Thanks for the thoughts.

                                      Ernest Rencella Wilson was my father's younger brother. Ernest never married and died in a hostel for homeless men in Stepney, London in 1957. Apparantly he never settled back into civilian life after WW2, became an alcoholic, and his health went downhill. Both my father and Ernest died in 1957, when I was a young child. As my father was 30yrs older than my mother, all of his brothers were dead by the time I started looking at family history.
                                      I remember looking at Ernest's Medals in their boxes as a child, but I don't know what happened to them:-(
                                      As a niece, would I count as next of kin? I have his Birth and Death Cert.

                                      Holly.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Holly View Post
                                        Funnily enough, I found that today too.

                                        It fills in some of the 'missing years' for Ernest Rencella Wilson.

                                        I can't see a way that I can reply to that Post though?

                                        Holly.
                                        You can reply to the Post by letter to his home or by telephone. The following information was at the bottom of the article......

                                        Any further information on ‘C’ or ‘Q’ companies of the ADRIC or on Wilson himself would be greatly appreciated: 1 Cromwell Road, Chesterfield, Derbyshire S40 4TH, England, int+44+(0)1246+559437.

                                        Tim Walls is a civil servant working in Sheffield.

                                        Rgds Matt.
                                        My avatar is my fathers father,name unknown.............................

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