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My Willett Family

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  • My Willett Family

    Hi, I was brought to this page when I did a google search on Willett. My grandmother was Rosina Willett and her father was Fred Henry and her mother Rosina Johnson. My nan was born 1916 and her parents were married 1915. I know we had relations on the isle of Wight as well! Anyway I'm trying to find out more about the Willett side. I'm having problems Fred Henry's father was Horace but I can't seem to find Fred Henrys birth certificate. I think he was born Portsmouth but ended up living in Surrey - Horsell/Knaphill. Any pointers in the right direction much appreciated. Thank you.

  • #2
    Hi, sorry! I have Fred Henrys certificate which say she was born 30th March 1891 in Chobham and his parents were Horace Willett and Ellen formerly Lamb. Its Horace I need further details on! Doh!

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Tracy and welcome to FTF First of all you need to obtain the marriage certificate of Horace to Ellen Lamb. The reference has him under the spelling of Horace Willet (only one t) to Ellen Lamb - Oct-Dec 1888 Lymington 2b 1219. This will give you his age, occupation and his father's name and occupation - assuming that he told the truth of course.
      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hallo Tracy!
        I am my self a beginner and not to much help. I recently joined this group my self.
        Regards
        Diana

        Comment


        • #5
          http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ for ordering certs on line from the General Register Office £9.25

          Welcome to the Forum

          Edna

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TracyRosina View Post
            Hi, sorry! I have Fred Henrys certificate which say she was born 30th March 1891 in Chobham and his parents were Horace Willett and Ellen formerly Lamb. Its Horace I need further details on! Doh!
            What does the certificate say for Horace's occupation? I've been looking at census returns and not sure this search is going to be straightforward!

            Comment


            • #7
              Do you know whether there's traveller or Romany roots?

              Comment


              • #8
                I have come across a record for Horace Willett, also known as James, [perhaps why you haven't found any census or other records for him], he had been a naughty lad and tried at Winchester for grievous bodily harm resulting in 6 months hard labour, the record says he was born 1867, occupation Hawker. Do you think he could be your Horace? If so, perhaps also look for a Fred Willet, father James Willet.

                You mention Isle of Wight features in your ancestry, a Horace James Willett died in IOW, Mar qrt 1908, 2b/439, age 67, so born approx 1841, could he be the father of the Horace/James mentioned above?

                Not sure I'll have time to do more research tonight, depends whether I can sleep - I'm an insomniac! If I don't further the search tonight, you do have somethings to look at and see if things can be tied together. I will keep my eye on the thread to see how it progresses.

                Comment


                • #9
                  As you'll realise sleep isn't happening, yet!

                  If I'm on the right track with James/Horace and possible traveller Romany roots, and assuming you have access to Ancestry, do you? The links below could pertain to your family; I've helped many Romany researchers and the experience has taught me much, some things being..................
                  1) For unknown reasons they were often known by different given names, sometimes nicknames, sometimes just an alternative name.
                  2) Often they didn't bother registering children's births, but did usually have their children christened.
                  3) If they could escape the census, they did! However, some enumerators were more savvy than others and would deliver census returns to camp sites or vans parked, but the Romanies pre 1900's, like many folk, were illiterate, also Romanies having their own dialect wouldn't be easy to understand, therefore it wasn't an easy task for the enumerator to fill out their returns, and often resulted in names being misunderstood, and consequently misspelled.
                  4) It was not uncommon for them to marry a few years after their first child was born.
                  5) They mostly married in church

                  You will have gathered that church records will help with Romany research more than registration records.

                  Hope I am on the right track!

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                    Hi Tracy and welcome to FTF First of all you need to obtain the marriage certificate of Horace to Ellen Lamb. The reference has him under the spelling of Horace Willet (only one t) to Ellen Lamb - Oct-Dec 1888 Lymington 2b 1219. This will give you his age, occupation and his father's name and occupation - assuming that he told the truth of course.
                    This marriage looks good as Lamb's witnessed Fred's marriage, however this site [without giving back up records] have him married to Harriet Woods, so if you send for the marriage certificate, to be on the safe side, DO NOT give the brides name, as if all entered details don't match the GRO will not send the cert. After a second look, they also have him married to Ann Light, so their records are unreliable, BUT, my advice is still only give the grooms name.

                    Last edited by Guest; 02-03-14, 01:11.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      It could be the Willet's , Lambs, Woods were all related, and they all married at the same time! The census records I posted do name Horace's wife Ann, or Nellie, which is a diminutive of Ann and commonly used by Romanies. Romanies also often used Polly for Mary Ann, thought I'd throw that in in case we come up against a Polly.
                      Last edited by Guest; 02-03-14, 01:23.

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                      • #13
                        Lots of research necessary to establish links to the right folks/ancestry. A starting point could be finding, or trying to find where the Lambs' [witnesses to Fred's marriage] fit in. Not easy, as signed 'Henry Lamb and B. Lamb, I guess there's hundred's of Henry Lambs on the census, and 'B' isn't much of a clue. But, we'll get there - eventually! Or so I hope.

                        To help other members here's the link to the marriage.

                        Last edited by Guest; 02-03-14, 01:42.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Enough for now, as I aren't even sure I'm on the right track with Romany ancestry. Over to you to give any further info you know about your roots, and if you think, or know there was Romany roots we can continue and expand on what's been found so far. For now, no point in taking things further - well, other than trying to find Henry and B Lamb.

                          Please, when answering, tell ALL you know of your ancestry, did your Nan speak of her relatives, or her husband's relatives, did she mention siblings names, tell us anything and everything which may be clues to to the past.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                            Hi Tracy and welcome to FTF First of all you need to obtain the marriage certificate of Horace to Ellen Lamb. The reference has him under the spelling of Horace Willet (only one t) to Ellen Lamb - Oct-Dec 1888 Lymington 2b 1219. This will give you his age, occupation and his father's name and occupation - assuming that he told the truth of course.
                            Courtesy of FreeBmd.

                            Marriages Dec 1888
                            LAMB Ellen Lymington 2b 1219
                            WELLS Henry Lymington 2b 1219
                            WILLET Horace Lymington 2b 1219
                            Woods Harriet Lymington 2b 1219

                            Marriages Dec 1888
                            CRUTCHER Louisa Lymington 2b 1236
                            LIGHT Ann Lymington 2b 1236
                            ROGERS William Lymington 2b 1236
                            WHITE George Lymington 2b 1236
                            WILLET Horace Lymington 2b 1236

                            These records do suggest Horace most likely married Ellen Lamb, as the 2nd record has an extra male [Horace] who is also indexed on the first record.

                            Comment


                            • #16
                              Just read this

                              Originally posted by TracyRosina View Post
                              Hi, sorry! I have Fred Henrys certificate which say she was born 30th March 1891 in Chobham and his parents were Horace Willett and Ellen formerly Lamb. Its Horace I need further details on! Doh!
                              Forget my ramblings about not filling in brides name on the marriage cert as it appears you know for sure Horace's bride was Ellen Lamb. So, are the census returns I provided with Horace's wife Ann the correct family

                              Comment


                              • #17
                                After reading all of Susan's brilliant finds I must apologise. That marriage I quoted is obviously the wrong one, if the romany records are right, which I assume they are. I should have said that there were other people on the 2 pages of marriages. I was assuming I had the right marriage as you knew the parents names. I see now that Horace married Harriet and Ellen Lamb married Henry Wells.

                                Fortunately, I see that Tracy hasn't been back since she posted. So at least she won't have ordered the wrong marriage cert.
                                Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                Comment


                                • #18
                                  Originally posted by susan h View Post
                                  This marriage looks good as Lamb's witnessed Fred's marriage, however this site [without giving back up records] have him married to Harriet Woods, so if you send for the marriage certificate, to be on the safe side, DO NOT give the brides name, as if all entered details don't match the GRO will not send the cert. After a second look, they also have him married to Ann Light, so their records are unreliable, BUT, my advice is still only give the grooms name.

                                  http://romanygenes.com/#/marriagesbirthsdea/4525202982
                                  Originally posted by susan h View Post
                                  Courtesy of FreeBmd.

                                  Marriages Dec 1888
                                  LAMB Ellen Lymington 2b 1219
                                  WELLS Henry Lymington 2b 1219
                                  WILLET Horace Lymington 2b 1219
                                  Woods Harriet Lymington 2b 1219

                                  Marriages Dec 1888
                                  CRUTCHER Louisa Lymington 2b 1236
                                  LIGHT Ann Lymington 2b 1236
                                  ROGERS William Lymington 2b 1236
                                  WHITE George Lymington 2b 1236
                                  WILLET Horace Lymington 2b 1236

                                  These records do suggest Horace most likely married Ellen Lamb, as the 2nd record has an extra male [Horace] who is also indexed on the first record.


                                  Originally posted by susan h View Post
                                  Just read this



                                  Forget my ramblings about not filling in brides name on the marriage cert as it appears you know for sure Horace's bride was Ellen Lamb. So, are the census returns I provided with Horace's wife Ann the correct family
                                  Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                                  After reading all of Susan's brilliant finds I must apologise. That marriage I quoted is obviously the wrong one, if the romany records are right, which I assume they are. I should have said that there were other people on the 2 pages of marriages. I was assuming I had the right marriage as you knew the parents names. I see now that Horace married Harriet and Ellen Lamb married Henry Wells.

                                  Fortunately, I see that Tracy hasn't been back since she posted. So at least she won't have ordered the wrong marriage cert.
                                  Chrissie, see bold type above, you haven't necessarily quoted the wrong marriage pairing, and anyway you were going on info provided by tracyrosina. We need to know whether tracyrosina is certain of the marriage pairing or whether she assumed it in view of the marriage witnesses at Fred's marriage. For now it is unclear who he married.

                                  Comment


                                  • #19
                                    The gypsy site you gave though has Horace Willet to Harriet Woods and Ellen Lamb to Henry Wells? Do you think it might be wrong then?
                                    I do agree with you about the gypsy connection. I tried searching yesterday and the only ones that seemed at all likely were gypsies in caravans. Probably the same census that you mean.

                                    By the way Susan, I hope tracyrosina won't mind if I just thank you. When I was looking through the gypsy site I came across a marriage that I believe explains my Heaps gypsies connection to the Boswells. I knew there was one from later census but a marriage I saw in 1828 has been a big help.
                                    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                    Comment


                                    • #20
                                      Thank you

                                      Wow, so much information, thank you all very much. I will have a look through. I believe Horace was married to Ellen Lamb as they are listed as the parents to Fred Henry. I believe they may have been Romanys. I know we had relations on the Isle of Wight. Thank you. I'll read, digest and get back to you. I am not registered with Ancestry - do you think it is worth me registering with them?
                                      Thank you.


                                      Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                                      The gypsy site you gave though has Horace Willet to Harriet Woods and Ellen Lamb to Henry Wells? Do you think it might be wrong then?
                                      I do agree with you about the gypsy connection. I tried searching yesterday and the only ones that seemed at all likely were gypsies in caravans. Probably the same census that you mean.

                                      By the way Susan, I hope tracyrosina won't mind if I just thank you. When I was looking through the gypsy site I came across a marriage that I believe explains my Heaps gypsies connection to the Boswells. I knew there was one from later census but a marriage I saw in 1828 has been a big help.

                                      Comment

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