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I am trying to trace a male KAVANAGH who left BIRKENHEAD, Cheshire, England sometime between 1885 and 1900. He and a 'brother' JAMES left Birkenhead/Liverpool and on the way it is rumoured that James 'drowned at sea'. It is believed that the brother (name unknown) arrived in California as 2 descendents visited Birkenhead in the last few years -2 ladies - one from San Francisco and the other from Los Angeles. I live in Canada and was given this information by a newly found 2nd cousin in Birkenhead. If anyone has information re this person I would be very grateful as I am unable to trace James (my gr-grandfather) who was born in Ireland in 1848. His father was PATRICK KAVANAGH and that is all I know.
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there is a suicide of a man Patrick kavanagh who jumped overboard 17 Oct 1886 could that be the brother? -
Dear Val - it would be very strange for him (James) to have committed suicide - he was a married man with 7 children at that time and on his way to make a new life. The reason we know he was dead is that in the 1891 UK Census Elizabeth is shown as a widow and his last child was born in 1886. Were did you find the information re the suicide?Comment
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Correction re the second date - should be 1890 NOT 1900!!Originally posted by ARickett View PostComment
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Val is saying that PATRICK, (the brother?) committed suicide, not James. Could the family story be confused? However, many a married man with children has committed suicide, so you cannot say he didn't, just because he had family.
Just because James' wife is shown as a widow on the 1891 census does not mean that her husband was dead, it merely means she wanted people to think that he was, because a widow got a lot more sympathy than an abandoned wife.
OCComment
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Plus she could get married again if the opportunity arose!Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
MargaretComment
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Who knows also what can happen to someone on a long sea voyage in terms of mental instability arising and a suicide urge.Originally posted by ARickett View Post
MargaretComment
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She did not remarry - she died in 1900 in Birkenhead. Her daughter Ellen was with her (she was my 2nd cousin Ann's mother) and Ellen's brother William was my grandfather.Comment
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Personally, I would want to eliminate that man Val has found because what is the liklihood of TWO unrelated men surnamed Kavanagh dying at sea at roughly the same time?
OCComment
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Just for information - the surname is recorded as CAVANAGH in English bmd records.
OCComment
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Yes - it is used both ways with a K and a C - The marriage cert. has it as a C, 1881 Census a K, and in the 1891 Census Elizabeth is shown with a C along with all her children. Her death certificate has her with a C - but my grandfather, his 2 brothers and myself and my parents use K.Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View PostComment
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It's been a few years since I last posted and since then I'm still searching for James' date of death BUT in the last few weeks through a series of FB connections and serendipitiously?? speaking to someone on FB Messenger I am now in contact with a 2nd cousin who has sent me the birth cert. of her grandmother, Margaret who was born 6 Oct. 1886 in which it states her father was deceased. So that gives me a window of 9 months instead of the 4 years to search for his death. Wish me luck - heading over to England in a week to continue the search.Comment
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Have you eliminated the Patrick who committed suicide?
What are you hoping to find on your visit to England that you cannot find on the internet?
OCComment
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would not the death at sea have been recorded at the first port of arrival??
In this case, would that not be the US?My grandmother, on the beach, South Bay, Scarborough, undated photo (poss. 1929 or 1930)
Researching Cadd, Schofield, Cottrell in Lancashire, Buckinghamshire; Taylor, Park in Westmorland; Hayhurst in Yorkshire, Westmorland, Lancashire; Hughes, Roberts in Wales.Comment
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There is a record on FMP of a Patrick Kavanagh aged 40 years having ?jumped overboard from the SS America on the way to New York. This is possibly the one Val found previously which was deemed to be a suicide.
The date of death is given as 17th October 1886.
The manifest for the SS America arriving in New York on the 22nd October 1886 records a James Kavanagh aged 40 years. I have looked through and cannot see a Patrick. My eyes not too good so I may have missed him. Page 279
I don't know where the death of Patrick/?James Kavanagh would have been registered. There is no additional info unfortunately on the records to link them with your James from Birkenhead.
VeraLast edited by vera2013; 05-05-17, 08:03.Comment
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Ancestry UK Registration of Births, Marriages and Deaths at Sea
Recorded 8th November 1886.
SS America
17th October 1886
Patrick Kavanagh aged 40
Occupation Unknown
Nationality Irish from Belfast
Last Abode Birkenhead
VeraComment
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Vera
As I said upthread it would be utterly incredible if this was just two men named Cavanagh who were unrelated to the Cavanagh men who went by ship to the USA and one committed suicide on the way!
I am not clear from the OP which man was his relative, James or Patrick.
OCComment
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Well done Vera. That clinches it for me.
OCComment
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Right, reading the op again (!) I realise it is James Cavanagh who is the great grandfather of the poster.
James arrived in the USA and presumably started a new family there, abandoning his wife and children in the UK.
OCComment
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Thanks OC. I was always confused as to whether there were two brothers off to America but then there has been contact with descendents so perhaps they didn't travel together.
Apparently the recording of deaths at sea could be a bit tardy back then and sometimes details were not always correct or even recorded.
Just read your post. I'm getting confused. I'm thinking that James is Patrick and that the info to the authorities wasn't correct. The Captain of the ship died on voyage to the USA so maybe things were a little fraught.
VeraLast edited by vera2013; 05-05-17, 08:54.Comment
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