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  • Open Historic BMD registers now

    Anguline Research Archives have started a campaign to get Historic Birth, Marriage and Death registers open to the public without having to purchase certified copies.
    See the reasoning behind it on Facebook at-


    Cheers
    Guy
    Guy passed away October 2022

  • #2
    A topic which I think is of interest to many of us. I know some of the members do not have Facebook accounts, so with Guy's permission I have copied the text from his website.

    edit ... if you want to support the campaign there are some sample letters on Guy's website - click here


    Open Historic Registers Now

    It is high time these records were openly accessible there is absolutely no good reason for them to remain regulated and only accessible by purchasing certified copies.
    In fact by allowing the historic BMDs to be unregulated the registrars and their deputies would then have more time to spend on the job in hand recording and officiating current events.
    A win, win situation.

    The records used to be open to public inspection. From the start of civil registration the public could carry out searches in the registers of birth, marriage and death. In 1898 the then Registrar General took it upon himself to close the records held at the GRO even though there was no change in the law to allow for such unilateral action.
    Similarly in 1974 many local registrars closed the registers they held to public searches even though a public search of the registers was written in to the various applicable Acts of Parliament.
    How is it that in a time when sensitive information (such as records about the miner’s strike 1984, records classified as “Most Confidential” covering such things as the trade union political levy, economic strategy and Northern Ireland) are released after 30 years and may be viewed at the National Archives free of charge, yet records of birth marriage and death even those 177year old must be purchased as certified copies.
    It is therefore suggested that the coalition government release all historic registers of Birth, Marriage and Death to allow private enterprise to digitise and make those records available online.
    Such a move would create employment in the private sector, reduce costs and pressure on the General Register Office. This would allow staff to concentrate on their core activities and increase productivity.
    In addition the sale of digitised copies of historic Birth, Marriage and Death certificates (under licence) would create useful revenue for the government in these times of need.

    The idea is important as it could provide much needed employment.
    Provide very useful revenue
    Show commitment to open government.

    There is in fact nothing to prevent this suggestion being carried out other than the will of parliament.
    If this government is truly committed to openness, freedom of information, raising revenue without taxing the population, cutting the deficit and providing employment they will take up this suggestion.

    Acts of Parliament since 1836 concerning the registering of births, marriages and deaths require that any member of the public have a certified copy of any entry or entries in the said register books under the hand of the registrar (or superintendent registrar, or general registrar, as the case may be) on payment of the relevant fees.

    This until relatively recently, meant before leaving the building.

    However due to the pressure of work the above superintendent registrars etc, fail to meet their legal responsibilities because they cannot supply certified copies of the certificates on payment of the relevant fees. As a result they post the certificate to the purchaser at a later date.
    Some superintendent registrar manipulate the system by requesting an additional fee for a “Priority Service” without thought that the legislation allowing payment for a priority service only applies to certificates obtained from the GRO.
    This problem could be alleviated if historic registers were made available as other historic records through the National Archives.
    There is no doubt that a number of private companies would readily jump at the chance to digitise these historic registers and make the contents available to the public at no cost to the tax payer.
    Such a move would not only make the registers available 24 hours a day but would provide much needed funds (through licencing arrangements) to the government.

    In addition the superintendent registrars and the general register office could meet the legal requirement placed on them in 1836 to provide an accurate index of the registers they hold.

    This legal requirement has never been met in the last 177 years.

    In the past in recognition of the errors and omissions in the indexes the public were allowed to view and take notes from the registers. The Registrar General disallowed this public use of the registers in the GRO in 1898.
    It was not until 1974 that the General Registrar stopped the public viewing and taking notes from registers held by superintendent registrars.

    To comply with the legal responsibilities of superintendent registrar and the Registrar general new accurate indexes should be compiled.
    However this would take an inordinate amount of time and tie down manpower that is needed elsewhere.

    An alternative would be to release the historic registers and allow them to be digitised; as part of this process new accurate indexes could and would be compiled.
    This work could and would be done under contract by private companies thereby relieving the registrars of the task and providing much needed revenue to the government coffers.

    A Royal Commission on Public Records agreed that it was the evident intention of the originating legislation in 1836 that the registers should be open.

    In 1992 a White Paper titled Civil Registration: Vital Change, Birth, Marriage Death Registration in the 21st Century was published.
    The forward (written by Ruth Kelly, Minister for the Office for National Statistics) to that White Paper stated-

    “This Government has been re-elected on a promise to deliver significant improvements to public services. Whilst the registration of births, marriages and deaths rarely hits the headlines, it is a vital service that touches everyone during their lives. The system in England and Wales has its roots in the nineteenth century. The needs of society, families and individuals have altered in many ways since then.
    Modernisation is required to reflect and support these changes. The Government’s proposals provide for more choice, improved service delivery and innovation.”

    The White Paper in Chapter 6 sections 6.5 & 6.6 page 30 states-
    “6.5. There is wide support for open access to all historic records of births, marriages and deaths and the full record being made available by electronic means. Respondents to the consultation felt that giving access to the historic records and removing the necessity to purchase a certified copy of an entry should reduce the ongoing costs
    and hence fees.

    6.6. The Government has concluded that historic records should be defined as those relating to people born over 100 years ago and that these should be made fully available to the public. In line with the census, this could include information collected for statistical purposes. As records move to the over 100 year old category they would be classed as historic and as such become open records.”
    It then goes on to state in section 6.8
    6.8. Once records are available electronically, the only requirement for certificates will be for legal use, which will be small. The original registers currently held at Register Offices are important historic documents and will be transferred to the local Record Office for preservation. The local Record Office will be able to offer access to the public, to assist social inclusion.

    That was twelve years ago family historians have patiently waited for those statements to be turned into action.

    An independent team was assembled to review (‘30 year rule’: consultation) when Government records are to be made available to the public in a review of the 30 year rule.

    Anthony Camp MBE finished his written evidence to the ‘30 year rule’: consultation (27 February 2008) with the following -
    “The Registrar General himself long ago suggested that the local registers might be microfilmed. If this were done in the manner suggested and all the material over a hundred years old released to county record offices and The National Archives an enormous and immediately valuable service would be done to many thousands of interested persons.”

    (Anthony Camp took part in the campaign by Family Tree Magazine for Easier and Cheaper Access to Older Civil Registers (starting Family Tree Magazine April 1998, Vol. 14, No. 6, pages 8 and 9))
    Registrars General throughout the decades have claimed to be working towards the opening of civil registers but as yet nothing has been done: It is time for change.
    What can you do to help?

    Why are historic registers not open now?

    The legislation is in place to allow it.
    The Registrars General since at least the start of the 20th century have been working towards it.
    A Royal Commission was in favour of it.
    A consultation review was in favour of it.
    Members of Parliament were in favour of it.
    Both Labour and Conservative governments have been in favour of it.

    The benefits include taking the pressure off Superintendent Registrars and the GRO enabling them to concentrate on their core task of recording and administering current registrations.
    A new accurate index of Births, Marriages and Death could be compiled thereby complying with the 1836 legislation for the first time in 177 years.
    Revenue could be created for the County Record Offices and/or the National Archives swelling the government coffers.
    Employment would be created in various forms.

    All at no cost to the taxpayer or government.

    What can you as an individual do?

    Write to your local MP and gain his/her support for the initiative.
    Ask your MP to raise or support an early day motion on the subject
    Write to other MPs
    C/O The House of Commons,
    Westminster,
    London,
    SW1A 0AA.

    The more letters and emails MPs get on the subject the more chance they will not only take notice but act.
    Raise the subject with your local Family History Society and ask them to support the initiative.
    Raise the subject with your Society of Genealogists if you are a member and ask them to support the initiative.
    The more people who are talking an writing about this the harder it becomes for MPs to ignore the situation

    These registers are your heritage.
    They are archived for your information
    Please help to make Easier and Cheaper to access them
    Elaine







    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Elaine - I do not have a facebook account, so without your help, I would not have been able to view Guy's mission statement.

      Thank you too to Guy.

      Jay
      Janet in Yorkshire



      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you Elaine for highlighting this, along with the comprehensive reasoning so well put forward by Guy. I do have a facebook account but rarely use it.

        Janet

        Comment


        • #5
          I would add a further benefit to this.

          If the registers are digitised and the information they contain made readily available, applications for certified copies of certificates could be tightened up considerably, therefore reducing instances of identity fraud.

          It is quite common for fraudsters to look for deaths of children and then apply for the birth certificate. They then have the start of a false identity for someone.
          Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
          Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
          Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
          Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
          Devine in Ireland

          Comment


          • #6
            I am broadly in agreement with this aim, but I have two questions:

            1. What do you (Guy, or anyone else) consider to be historic certificates?

            2. Considering that the last attempt to digitise all certs was abandoned for technical reasons, who do you see as willing and able to take on the huge challenge, both in financial terms and in technical terms?

            OC

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm broadly in agreement too, but feel I don't understand enough about it to be lobbying anyone.

              How did the Scots do their BMDs to get them all on-line?

              STG
              Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                I am broadly in agreement with this aim, but I have two questions:

                1. What do you (Guy, or anyone else) consider to be historic certificates?

                2. Considering that the last attempt to digitise all certs was abandoned for technical reasons, who do you see as willing and able to take on the huge challenge, both in financial terms and in technical terms?

                OC
                Yes, I was just thinking about that. It wasn't long ago that DoVE (Digitisation of Vital Events) finished.
                Joy

                Comment


                • #9
                  STG

                  Scottish registers are physically different from English and Welsh ones - something to do with the binding of the register which allows them to be opened out flat, unlike the GRO registers. Also - the volume of Scottish BMDs is in the low millions. English and Welsh BMD certs are into hundreds of millions by now.

                  The other point I meant to make, above, is that I would personally prefer certs to be digitised at local level, not by the GRO. All certs held by the GRO are second copies (at least) which means there is yet another window of opportunity for error!

                  OC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i thought the issue with digitisation was that the law stated english bmd's were not allowed to go online. though in my understanding, the registers are digitised and the GRO just prints them off their computers.

                    historical records would presumably be similar to australia and scotland. australian and scottish births are sealed for 100 years. marriages in australia are sealed for 70 years, scotland is 75 i think. and deaths in australia vary, 10 yrs to 50. i think scotland is 50. though there are ways around obtaining certs in aus, so maybe those would be applied too. if a person was born within the last 100 years, but has died, the birth is historical. if both parties to a marriage within 75 years are deceased, it is historical. this doesn't mean they will appear in indexes until the time period is up, but if you enquired about accessing them, legally they would have to give you such records.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      kyle

                      Two different issues.

                      Digitisation (the DOVE project) was never intended to be for the benefit of the public, it was to make the life of registrars easier and facilitate reporting to the GRO. The contractor (Siemens) pulled out of the project before it was finished because of insurmountable technical difficulties caused by the curved pages of the old registers. The scheme was abandoned. Current certs are dealt with digitally of course, because no scanning of old registers is involved.

                      A change in the law will be required to deliver any kind of image of a cert by email, as the internet is considered a public medium. Several attempts have been made to try to change this law but have never had a second reading, due to lack of general interest (and future votes, haha).

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                        kyle

                        Two different issues.

                        Digitisation (the DOVE project) was never intended to be for the benefit of the public, it was to make the life of registrars easier and facilitate reporting to the GRO. The contractor (Siemens) pulled out of the project before it was finished because of insurmountable technical difficulties caused by the curved pages of the old registers. The scheme was abandoned. Current certs are dealt with digitally of course, because no scanning of old registers is involved.

                        A change in the law will be required to deliver any kind of image of a cert by email, as the internet is considered a public medium. Several attempts have been made to try to change this law but have never had a second reading, due to lack of general interest (and future votes, haha).

                        OC
                        I think one of the key points here is we do not want certificates we simply want to see the information in the record so the registers we see on line at the moment for various parts of the country would be ideal and I presume they are from the local registers not the GRO records.

                        If these records are in the public domain as hard copy then I cannot see the problem making them available on line except a technical one.

                        More power to Guy's elbow I say!
                        Margaret

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                          ... because of insurmountable technical difficulties caused by the curved pages of the old registers.
                          OC
                          So, it is completely beyond the wit of man to work out how to scan an image from a curved page.

                          Couldn't they unbind/loosen the binding and then re-bind/tighten it up again? Or would that have just been too simple?
                          Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I did try to publish a reply but it seems to have got lost in the ether.
                            However here is a second attempt.

                            Historic certificates have been described either as those over 75 years old or those over 100 years old both ideas have positive and negatives to them. I would leave the interpretation to the government.

                            I have heard from a number of commercial concerns both here and abroad who would readily take up the challenge, at least three of which have a history of similar projects.

                            A few years ago I visited a company who I have used on occasions and they were busy with a contract to scan a number of Scottish registers.
                            A similar approach could happen with the English BMD though admittedly on a much bigger scale. A similar project was also used for the GRONI project and is being considered for the Republic of Ireland also.

                            As mentioned by OC the GRO copies are transcriptions and contain errors and omissions. It would be preferable to use the local registers but at this stage I would not wish to rule out either the centralised records or the local records.

                            The Dove (Digitisation of Vital Events) To digitise the BMDs from 1836 to present day. Siemens the contractor pulled out with agreement after the births to 1934 and deaths to 1957 had been completed about half the records. These are now used to improve the certificate ordering process.
                            Eagle (Electronic Access to GRO Legacy Events) the certificate ordering process it currently uses the records from Dove to process orders for certificates.
                            Magpie (MultiAccess to GRO Public Index of Events) the final part of the trio to make the digitised records available to the public via a website. This was abandoned in favour of DIP below.
                            DIP Digitisation and Indexing Project was to complete the digitisation and create an index to improve the certificate ordering process. Alas this was also abandoned.

                            Finally the GRO always assert that certificate may only be supplied by certified copy. That as it stands is correct but that is different from the public viewing the register and extracting their own copy of the entry. That has always been legal, it was carried out at the GRO until 1898 and at superintendent registrars until 1973/4 (depending which office one attended). It is still legal to visit the local registrars and extract entries for the current registers of birth marriage and death oneself.

                            There is no Act of parliament that prohibits any registrar, superintendent registrars or the registrar general from granting the public access to any register in their custody.
                            The Royal Commission made up of 9 members five of who were distinguished legal brains of the day stated “We see no good reason in principle for forbidding searchers to take copies at their own risk. The existing restriction rests merely on financial grounds and we think it should be removed”. That was written 100 years ago in 1914.

                            Those who were at WDYTYA may have seen the Surrey GRO who had two open registers on their stand.

                            Cheers
                            Guy
                            Last edited by Guy; 02-03-14, 13:10. Reason: spelling
                            Guy passed away October 2022

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SmallTownGirl View Post
                              So, it is completely beyond the wit of man to work out how to scan an image from a curved page.

                              Couldn't they unbind/loosen the binding and then re-bind/tighten it up again? Or would that have just been too simple?
                              There is no real problem in scanning curved pages the technology has been around for over ten years it is commonly called book curve or fold correction
                              See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9vxPyC2nYY

                              Incidentally the 1911 was scanned unbound
                              • Although scanning is automated, the process must be supervised and each page gently guided as it goes through the scanner to ensure it does not crumple and…


                              Cheers
                              Guy
                              Guy passed away October 2022

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thankyou Guy. I had no idea the original DOVE project had got that far. Even half a loaf would be better than none, if they already have so many records digitally available. I think most people would rather download a digital copy than visit a Register office in person, not least because the said RO will charge research time.

                                STG

                                I don't think the GRO would want to unbind these records because there is so much to lose if it all goes wrong. I don't think the problem was so much scanning a curved page, it was the unacceptable quality produced which made Siemens pull out - it was taking them too long and therefore reducing whatever profit they had envisaged on a fixed cost contract (maybe).

                                In the meantime, I'm doing my tiny bit by putting the details of all certs in my possession onto Freebmd as a postem. If everyone did that, it might at least help to rule out the WRONG ones, lol.

                                OC

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Siemens were scanning from microfilm not the physical registers, there are always problems scanning from microfilm.

                                  If microfilm is required for archive purposes the best course of action is to digitise the record and produce the microfilm from the digitised image.
                                  It should also be noted that microfilm is a better long term storage media than digital the fact that microfilm image cannot be changed without leaving evidence of change whereas a digital image can plays a big part in this.
                                  Cheers
                                  Guy
                                  Guy passed away October 2022

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thankyou again, Guy, more detail I did not know.

                                    I think the biggest problem overall is going to be creating the WILL to do it. Unfortunately I cannot at present see the government having the will to do it but we can live in hope that some forward-thinking bureaucrat will see the financial advantages.

                                    OC

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      So here's a question. How did they make the microfilm copies from the bound books? Just wondered!
                                      Anne

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        i've seen marriage registers on ancestry where the page is curved. so it can be done. i think it may be something to do with how the original books were bound. i have read that on the forum, must have been the last time this subject was raised.

                                        and i did know, but good on ireland for trying to digitise theirs. will be probably be expensive when they get it all sorted, but would certainly help knock out a few certs.

                                        Comment

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