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Am I on the right track please?

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  • Am I on the right track please?

    Hi

    I am currently researching Alfred Cross born c 1893, (I think) in Poplar. He is my husbands grandfather. He married Amelia Victoria Lawrence (Laurence) on 25/12/1915 at St Thomas Church, Stepney London and I have a copy of the marriage certificate. On that certificate:

    a) His father's name is given as Edward and is a Bookmaker.
    b) I cannot read the residence at the time of the marriage - can anyone help?

    Alfred dies in September 1928 and again I have a copy of the death certificate.

    I have found census records for what I think is the family going back several decades.

    1911 http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/23...l=ReturnRecord

    1901 http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/78...l=ReturnRecord

    I have now been thrown into turmoil because the fact that he says his father's name is Edward on his marriage certificate. Do you think this is an error or have I been tracking totally the wrong family with a father name of Henry/Harry.

    So far I have found no records relating to Edward and Alfred but maybe I am not seeing them.

    My husband's mother has always said that her father (Alfred) was a lighterman.

    What does anyone else think?

    Thank you

  • #2
    Is is Thurza Street? And I see Bootmaker for Edward, not Bookmaker.

    STG
    Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Small Town Girl - sorry typing error you are correct it should have said Boot maker. The occupation of boot maker links in with the census for the cross family where he does state boot repairer as part of his occupation.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm not sure! The occupation for Alfred on the 1911 census is labourer in lead works, yet the occupation on his MC is Lighterman.
        If he was a lighterman then he would have done an apprenticeship - not sure if at that time it was 5 or 7 years. Of course, he could be just working on the boats on the Thames and calling himself a lighterman!
        Elaine







        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Elaine - his later career after joining the services in 1915/16 was he worked on the boats that sent "goods" out to the troops in France. I haven't investigated the lighterman occupation yet, that is something for later on when I know I have the right man! Thank you

          Comment


          • #6
            The marriage cert shows Alfred as a lighterman so that fits with m-i-l's comment.

            The Henry Cross showing on the 1911 link you gave is a grinder and boot repairer so that a possible fit too. It could be his proper name was Edward but he was always referred to as Henry.

            Perhaps worth checking the Thurza Street address in the 19 11 to see who is living there.

            Margaret

            Comment


            • #7
              There is an entry for an Alfred Cross in the Thames watermen and lightermen 1688-2010 records for 29/6/1911 at Plaistow, masters name Edgar Cross. Date free 29/6/1916. The record source is
              Binding Records 1692-1949

              Comment


              • #8
                Just had a look for 20 Thurza Street in 1911 and found it listed as Thirza Street on FMP.

                The people listed are named Vorley so doesn't look like a connection to your Cross family.

                Margaret

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Margaret

                  Struggling to find a Thurza Street in the Stepney/Mile End/Poplar area. Have done a search on Ancestry under "Thurza Street" and it does not appear to be recognising it, unless I am doing something wrong!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Margaret, you obviously had more success than me in looking for the address - thank you, at least that eliminates it.

                    Hi Frazzled - if I follow the Cross family found on the census there was an elder brother called Edgar!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gill D View Post

                      Hi Frazzled - if I follow the Cross family found on the census there was an elder brother called Edgar!
                      What is Edgar's occupation?
                      Elaine







                      Comment


                      • #12


                        Looks like someone else is gathering info on Alfred, I wonder who his NOK is on the record along with his address.
                        Jacky

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tilly Mint View Post
                          http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...owtopic=160879

                          Looks like someone else is gathering info on Alfred, I wonder who his NOK is on the record along with his address.
                          Hi Tilly Mint - That was me!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In the 1901 census that Gill has been following Edgar is a Messenger on India Docks

                            I have found an Edgar Cross in 1911 who is now married with 2 children and a Lighterman. They have transcribed his age incorrectly it should be 25 (clear on original image) not 28.

                            I have also found details of Edgar in the Lighterman records. Starting date 11/3/1902 East Ham, master James Watts, date free 12/3/1907.

                            But all this relates to the family with the head being named as Harry not Edward

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Going back to the Waterman's Bindings for Alfred Cross.

                              It shows the date of binding (start of apprenticeship) as 29 June 1911 - which would have been after the 1911 census was taken.
                              It shows the date of freedom (end of appreticeship) as 29 June 1916 - which is after the date of his marriage.
                              It gives his date of birth as 5th October 1893.

                              This date of birth matches with a baptism entry on Ancestry (LMA records) for Alfred baptised on 12 Dec 1894, parents Henry Cross and Kate Cross. - and the address matches the 1901 census you have found.



                              .. so it looks as if you could be on the right line!
                              Elaine







                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Looks like Henry/Harry Cross died 1916 Q1 not long before Alfred got married, maybe confusion with name due to that maybe??

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  The next of kin is his wife Amelia Victoria cross.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                                    Going back to the Waterman's Bindings for Alfred Cross.

                                    It shows the date of binding (start of apprenticeship) as 29 June 1911 - which would have been after the 1911 census was taken.
                                    It shows the date of freedom (end of appreticeship) as 29 June 1916 - which is after the date of his marriage.
                                    It gives his date of birth as 5th October 1893.

                                    This date of birth matches with a baptism entry on Ancestry (LMA records) for Alfred baptised on 12 Dec 1894, parents Henry Cross and Kate Cross. - and the address matches the 1901 census you have found.



                                    .. so it looks as if you could be on the right line!
                                    Does anyone know if its possible to get hold of copies of the Waterman Bindings or is it possible to view them so that I can gather further information?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Gill D View Post
                                      Does anyone know if its possible to get hold of copies of the Waterman Bindings or is it possible to view them so that I can gather further information?
                                      You will find some information on the Docklands Ancestors site - http://www.parishregister.com/watermen_and_lightermen.html

                                      There are transcriptions of the bindings available on Findmypast - they are also available on disc from Docklands Ancestors.
                                      They are very helpful when you have a query. I would suggest you contact them, telling them what you know which is basically the following ..

                                      It shows the date of binding as 29 June 1911
                                      It shows the date of freedom as 29 June 1916
                                      It gives his date of birth as 5th October 1893.
                                      .. and ask if there are any other records available which might tell you more.

                                      They have done lookups for me in the past, and the cost was quite reasonable.
                                      Elaine







                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                                        You will find some information on the Docklands Ancestors site - http://www.parishregister.com/watermen_and_lightermen.html

                                        There are transcriptions of the bindings available on Findmypast - they are also available on disc from Docklands Ancestors.
                                        They are very helpful when you have a query. I would suggest you contact them, telling them what you know which is basically the following ..



                                        .. and ask if there are any other records available which might tell you more.

                                        They have done lookups for me in the past, and the cost was quite reasonable.
                                        Hi Elaine, thank you once again Do the records on Find my Past give the same info as Dockland Ancestors or is the more detailed info available from Docklands Ancestors?

                                        Comment

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