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1838 - A burial record, but no death registration?

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  • 1838 - A burial record, but no death registration?

    Someone has asked for my help, but I'm stumped.

    She has a burial record for a 20yo William Cran(n) from St Peter's, Leeds, on 8 April 1838, and would like to order a copy of his death certificate, but neither of us can find a registration of the death. He was baptised in Leeds, I think she said, so it's most likely that he died there too and not elsewhere.

    We know, of course, that civil registration only came in on 1 July 1837 and that some of the early ones slipped through the net, so to speak, but I thought that was mostly baptisms. Did the vicar/curate etc not need to be shown any "official" paperwork before conducting a burial service, perhaps?

    Anyone any bright ideas, please?

    STG
    Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

  • #2
    STG

    It wasn't necessary to register a death in order for a burial to be performed and this didn't really change until the 1870s when it became apparent that people were being murdered and buried without any questions being asked (because it was no-one's duty).

    In the early days of civil registration many people only registered a death if there was something in it for them, usually an insurance policy. there were also many cases of deaths bing fraudulently registered in order to claim insurance for people who had never even been born, let alone died! It was prssure from the insurance companies and burial societies which eventually forced a change in the law, about 1875 I think, which made it illegal to bury someone without a civil registration of death certificate, which in turn had to be supported by a medical certificate of death.

    In short, you may not find a death cert for your man.

    OC

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    • #3
      Thanks OC.
      Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

      Comment


      • #4
        My gg grandfather died in 1856 and there is no death cert, only a burial, in the right place and the right age (86!). I have several wrong certificates and its not a common name so I'm as sure as I can be that the death was not registered.
        Anne

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        • #5
          I'm really glad to read these replies, especially from OC, as I've never been able to find a death registration (or a burial unfortunately) for an ancestor who died between 1841 and 1851. I've been told by many people that no-one could be buried unless their death had been registered, therefore there must be a death registration.

          I've had the local register office search, as well as going through the GRO indexes with a fine tooth comb. Now I can put people straight!

          Anne

          Comment


          • #6
            The Births & Deaths Registration Act of 1836 (s27), which came into force on 1st July 1837, did make it a legal requirement that no burial should take place without a death certificate having been issued, or if it did the person carrying out the burial had to inform the registrar within 7 days (or be subject to a £10 fine) - so you may sometimes find the death being registered some time after the burial takes place (even today, that can be the case where a coroners inquest is involved). So you should find a certificate for any burial taking place after the law came in.

            However in 1837 the responsibility for making sure all births and deaths were properly registered lay with the registrar and by some estimates up to 15% of births were not registered at all (which varies from district to district). Non-registration of deaths was much less common, but no doubt did occur, especially in the earlier years of civil registration and as long as you had a vicar willing to overlook the new law and carry out the funeral.

            The 1874 Births and Deaths Registration Act moved the responsibility onto the individual (and not the registrar) and as OC says made it a requirement for deaths to be reported to the registrar within 5 days, and for a doctor to issue a medical certificate of cause of death before a death could be registered, which is essentially the system still in place today.
            Last edited by AntonyM; 15-02-14, 15:38.
            Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
            Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

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            • #7
              There is a burial record for my great-Grandad in 1902 - luckily for me because his death was not registered. I am so glad that he never moved far from his place of birth, otherwise I may never have known an approximate date when he died.
              Joy

              Comment


              • #8
                Antony is right of course, but what I really meant was that it was possible to bury someone without sight of a death registration, leaving wide open the possibility that a death was never registered, because everyone concerned thought someone else had done it/was going to do it. From 1875 onwards, no one could bury a body BEFORE the death had been registered, which changed the game.

                I wish I could remember the name of the most excellent book I read, regarding Victorian Poisoners. It examined some famous Victorian poisoning cases but had a wealth of social and legal background which demonstrated how easy it was to murder someone and get away with it and how difficult it was for anyone who suspected foul play to convince the authorities.

                Sometimes however, there is a simpler explanation for a seemingly-unregistered death. I searched for the death reg of my 2 x GGf for nearly 30 years - I even knew when he had died, from the inscription on his gravestone, but there was no corresponding death registered. Very common name. HA! I had made two very basic errors, which I blush to recount.

                One - he died on December 28th 1898. Death actually appeared in JFM 1899 because it was registered on 2nd Jan.
                Two - he died out of area! I had not considered this as he had lived in the same area for many many years and family legend had it that he never went further than the pub at the end of the road.

                OC

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post

                  One - he died on December 28th 1898. Death actually appeared in JFM 1899 because it was registered on 2nd Jan.
                  Two - he died out of area! I had not considered this as he had lived in the same area for many many years and family legend had it that he never went further than the pub at the end of the road.

                  OC
                  Indeed, OC, registrations out the expected area are quite a trap. Nowadays, I think we forget how often, even today, the elderly move to stay with children in their final years/days, or in a hospital far from their own home.

                  In the era before freeBMD, a relative hunted for the death of his ancestor, Vincent Worner, without success. We thought he probably died in the same decade as his siblings, so I searched the GRO quarterly indexes and found he died in Hull, after living all his life in Somerset and Bristol. Although there are no clues on the death certificate, the census shows that his son George was living in Hull a little after the death.
                  Diane
                  Sydney Australia
                  Avatar: Reuben Edward Page and Lilly Mary Anne Dawson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                    Antony is right of course, but what I really meant was that it was possible to bury someone without sight of a death registration, leaving wide open the possibility that a death was never registered, because everyone concerned thought someone else had done it/was going to do it. From 1875 onwards, no one could bury a body BEFORE the death had been registered, which changed the game.

                    I wish I could remember the name of the most excellent book I read, regarding Victorian Poisoners. It examined some famous Victorian poisoning cases but had a wealth of social and legal background which demonstrated how easy it was to murder someone and get away with it and how difficult it was for anyone who suspected foul play to convince the authorities.

                    Sometimes however, there is a simpler explanation for a seemingly-unregistered death. I searched for the death reg of my 2 x GGf for nearly 30 years - I even knew when he had died, from the inscription on his gravestone, but there was no corresponding death registered. Very common name. HA! I had made two very basic errors, which I blush to recount.

                    One - he died on December 28th 1898. Death actually appeared in JFM 1899 because it was registered on 2nd Jan.
                    Two - he died out of area! I had not considered this as he had lived in the same area for many many years and family legend had it that he never went further than the pub at the end of the road.

                    OC
                    My great-Grandad's situation was very unusual
                    Joy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Joy

                      Exceptions to every rule, of course! Perhaps the vicar assumed the death had been registered and didn't ask to see the paperwork. Or perhaps it WAS registered but was somehow lost from the records - again, not impossible.

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The burial registers for the coastal villages in my area record the burials of numerous "unknowns" washed up on the beaches. Similarly I have also come across several burials of "unknown; found dead on the road, a vagrant."
                        I don't know what would have happened (re registration) in these cases. I'm sure some sort of provision will have been made for cases like these.

                        Jay
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                        • #13
                          Jay

                          I would think there would be a Coroner's Inquest and the death would be registered by him.

                          Off topic a bit - I was trawling a register for a parish on the Isle of Man and came across pages and pages of entries listing "a human arm" a human leg" etc. The Vicar had named all these body parts as "Known unto God".

                          OC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes, I expect there would have had to have been an inquest.
                            I've just entered "unknown" in the surname box for searches of the death index and was quite surprised at how many hits there were for the deaths of male/female unknown unknown. There were a few with no gender stated.

                            So, all of these persons would not have appeared in the death index under their own name, or with an age. Nor would there be any traceable burial record :(

                            Jay
                            Janet in Yorkshire



                            Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                            • #15
                              has the local registrar indexes been searched? i have a 5th great grandma who died in 1863, with no death cert. i think they just forgot to register it. but it wasn't in the GRO indexes, so i emailed the local one, and they were shocked they didn't have it.

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                Joy

                                Exceptions to every rule, of course! Perhaps the vicar assumed the death had been registered and didn't ask to see the paperwork. Or perhaps it WAS registered but was somehow lost from the records - again, not impossible.

                                OC
                                As you say, not impossible.
                                By the way, I hadn't just assumed; the local Registrar thoroughly checked for me.
                                It happened in Galway, too, in 1877 and 1882; again the local Registrar thoroughly checked the registers. Fortunately for me, the Galway Family History Society advised me of the church burial records.
                                Joy

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                                • #17
                                  Thanks everyone. Friend has been onto Leeds Register's Office who are going to search for a death certificate. Let's hope, for her sake, that they do find one.

                                  Thanks again
                                  STG
                                  Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Just tying up a loose end.

                                    Friend has heard back from Leeds Registrar's Office to say that they can't find a death certificate

                                    So, that's that.

                                    Thanks for trying.
                                    STG
                                    Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

                                    Comment

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