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Chrissie Smiff
03-02-14, 16:21
Has anyone any idea what Sarah's second Christian name is please? She is the one between George and Christiana Lunn.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/Chrissie_023/c045244c-fdaf-4fd6-99a0-926d591101c1_zps93e6fa9a.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/Chrissie_023/media/c045244c-fdaf-4fd6-99a0-926d591101c1_zps93e6fa9a.jpg.html)

Elaine ..Spain
03-02-14, 16:30
Could it be Anna. I think the upward line from the name is probably a downward stroke from the name above?

Val wish Id never started
03-02-14, 16:45
I was thinking Amelia ?

vera2013
03-02-14, 16:51
Me too Val

Elaine ..Spain
03-02-14, 16:52
Age is a bit out, but is this the right family ?

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms
Sarah Hannah Lunn
Birth Date: 20 Jan 1848
Baptism Date: 4 Jun 1848 - Holy Trinity, Huddersfield
Parents: George and Jane Lunn

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=&gsln=lunn&sx=&f28=&f30=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&f14=&f16=&rg_81004221__date=&rs_81004221__date=0&f10=&f34=george&f36=&f38=jane&f40=&gskw=huddersfield&prox=1&db=wyorkcoebaptism&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=2&h=6366703&recoff=11+34+35+46+47&ml_rpos=3

Chrissie Smiff
03-02-14, 17:02
Sorry, I just popped up for a shower:)
Thank you all:) Yes, Elaine, that will be the one but there isn't a birth reg that's fits.
I know that mine was in England by 1873 when she maried but I haven't got world wide to see whether she came back in the 3 years between or not.
The thing is, I am trying to establish whether this one (which is on a tree on Ancestry) is the same as the one I'm looking for. They have her marrying the same chap as me but I'm not sure whether they have the right one or not.

p.s. The birth I was looking at was Sarah Hannah Esther Lunn Dec 1849 as she always says born Huddersfield. She married under just Sarah Hannah though.

Val wish Id never started
03-02-14, 17:07
Sarah Anna Lunn Huddersfield Sep 1848 22 335

Chrissie Smiff
03-02-14, 17:14
Yes Val, I have seen that too thank you:) I just want to know whether the one going to New York is the same one as mine or not. Arriving in New York 1857 and being back to marry in 1863 in Huddersfield.

She died in Oct-Dec 1897 by the way aged 49.

vera2013
03-02-14, 18:25
Chrissie

Have checked Ancestry incoming but they commence at 1878. However, can't seem to find that outgong family remaining in the USA although only a brief look.

Did Sarah Hannah marry 1863 or 1873. 1863 would make her only 15 or am I getting confused.

Vera

Chrissie Smiff
03-02-14, 18:52
According to the tree the father and some of the children stayed and died in various parts of America Vera. They have an 1861 census with what they say is the mother, Sarah Hannah and Ann Ellen but I think they have the wrong family on that one as various ages and birth places don't match. I think I need to discount that tree.

It definitely looks like a marriage cert needed and I agree that she only appears to be 15 at marriage. I was hoping I could find it on line but no luck so far. It's Sam Crowther to Sarah Hannah Lunn - July-Sept 1863 Huddersfield ref 9a 466.
She is missing on the 1871 but the children are there and Sam is married. I have many of the childrens baptisms including the two on 1871 and Sarah Hannah is showing as mother. She would have had the first one Willie when she was 15.

vera2013
03-02-14, 21:32
No luck with Sarah H in 1871 or marriage to Samuel 1863

The UK 1861 with Jane, Sarah Hannah and Ann Ellen seemed OK. The places of birth and dob's fit but can't say about pob for Jane.

On the USA 1861, we have Mary Ann who apparently married Daniel Collins. She has with her (although badly transcribed) George Henry aged 15 and Christopher aged 8. (Lunn).


Vera

Chrissie Smiff
04-02-14, 10:44
Thank you for trying Vera:) Yes, the tree has lots of info and photos of the USA ones. I am going to have to ask my friend to buy the marriage cert. I so hoped it would be on line as many in that area are. He was named Sam actually and married under the name Sam, though he did call himself Samuel as he grew up.

vera2013
04-02-14, 13:22
http://www.whitwam.co.uk/

This chap does free look ups of some Huddersfield marriages but he asks for telephone no to register which I was loathe to do.

Yorks BMD don't seem to have Huddersfield marriages so not able to see if it was church or RO. There maybe a Wesleyan connection as I found a Canadian cert for William entering the country to join son Samuel (I hope I have the right one) and he states he is Protestant/Wesleyan. Shame Ancestry didn't have it with their West Riding PR's.

Vera

susan h
04-02-14, 19:44
I think the marriage was most likely a civil one, which would answer why you cannot find an online certificate, my reason for thinking this is - there's no online parish marriage for the other names indexed on the same page. Usually when more than two names indexed, i.e more than one marriage, it's because the marriages were performed either at the same church or Registry Office.

Huddersfield and it's outlying districts are my main research areas. The churches in the area including non conformist Chapels are very well covered on Ancestry. I'll take a look at christenings but without Sarah's father's name it's a difficult search. I do think though that she was probably born before 1848, I know some girls married young but 15yrs old in 1863 seems doubtful to me. Need to get a feel for this search so I'll pop off now and look at census records she's on etc.

Chrissie Smiff
04-02-14, 19:47
I agree Vera, I would feel uncomfortable giving my telephone number too.

'My' Sam's parents were Joseph and Elizabeth Vera. I'm not sure where you got William from?

Chrissie Smiff
04-02-14, 19:57
Thanks you Susan:) Yes, I was thinking on the same lines, that they probably married quietly. She is quite consistent with her age on census/death etc. I also wondered if they tried to hide the birth of the first child too as he was born 10-3-1864 in Rochdale and then not christened until a few years later with brother Harry, who I think was a sickly baby. This is what I have so far -

Sam Crowther born Apr-June 1843 Ecclesfield (Barnsley) to Joseph and Elizabeth (A miner, then Engine Fitter, then Turner) - likely baptism May 12th 1843 Barnsley (says father weaver but could be mistake as he was a wheelright/Carpenter) - Married July-Sept 1863 Huddersfield ref 9a 466 to Sarah Hannah Lunn. Died Sarah Hannah Crowther Oct-Dec 1897 aged 49 Nottingham 7b 150

Willie born 10/3/1864 in Rochdale Bap 12/5/1867 in Barnsley. Went out to Canada 26/3/1923 and returned 12th May 1923. Returning to 12 Irving Road, Stoke, Coventry.
Harry born 3/3/1867 Bap “ “ same time as Willie-Possible death 1869 Aston
Herbert Born July-Sept 1869 Barnsley - Baptised at the same time as Annie in 1872 (see below)
Annie Evaline – Born Dec 1871 Barnsley 9c 124 - Baptised 6th Oct 1872 in Barnsley – Died March 1873 Barnsley aged 1
Theresa born September 1873 Sheffield (Brightside Bierlow) ref 9c 456
Annie (Anne) born June 1875 Birmingham 6d 228 – Married George Rowley 1893????9 Children ???
George Henry Jan-March 1882 Nottm 7b 259
May born Jan-March 1888 Nottm 7b 289

susan h
04-02-14, 20:17
I agree Vera, I would feel uncomfortable giving my telephone number too.

Me too! I am a member of Steve Whitwam's site, when I joined he didn't ask for my telephone number. Steve has in the past helped me, his main research interests lie in the Colne Valley (suburbs of Hudd's), unless Sarah was born there I doubt Steve would be able to offer more help than members of FTF, and if the marriage was a civil one - and I'm definitely thinking it the case - then Steve won't be able to help with it. Steve's database includes many memorial inscriptions from the Colne Valley which could be useful, but not until Sarah's ancestry is confirmed.

Thanks Chrissie for filling me in on what info you have, most useful. I'll now spend some time searching.

Chrissie Smiff
04-02-14, 20:24
That's really kind of you Susan:) I'm beginning to think my friend will have no option but the marriage cert though.

Chrissie Smiff
04-02-14, 20:27
Oh, I forget to add that I have many of the census -
Sam in 1841 and 1851 - Sam in 1861 with the children, living near his mother but no Sarah Hannah present - All together in 1881, now in Birmingham - and by 1891 they were in Nottingham where they remained.

vera2013
04-02-14, 20:31
Susan I will double check the registration criteria just in case I have got it wrong.

Chrissie

Not sure you will be able to pick this up as its worldwide

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1588/30927_2000901329-04857/441106?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dCanadaOceanArrivals%26h%3d441 106%26indiv%3dtry%26o_vc%3dRecord%253aOtherRecord% 26rhSource%3d7572&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

The William I was referring to was I think the son of Sarah and Sam. He was going out to Canada leaving his wife behind and staying with his son Samuel.

Just re -read thread and see you have this.

Liverpool to Toronto Port St John NB 16th March 1923
Married not accompanied by wife
Intended occupation Turner
Birthplace Huddersfield
Rel Protestant/Wesleyan
Intended to remain (but he returned)
Destination Son Samuel Crowther, Oaksville, Ontatio
Wife's address 12 Irving Road Stoke, Coventry

Vera

Chrissie Smiff
04-02-14, 21:03
Oh thank you Vera:) The plot thickens - I can't see outgoing (no world wide) but the one I found was incoming and his name was Willie, not William. I have him coming back on 12th May 1923 and the other tree has him going out on 26th March 1923. It sounds as though he was just on a visit to his son then.
p.s. On the return his aoccupation looks like Graminer?, Engineers.

Chrissie Smiff
04-02-14, 21:28
I think I might have found Willie with a son Samuel on the census. According to the correction though (and checking BMD) he married as William. Which is odd as he was definitely registered and Christened as Willie and is Willie on all the census.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1891&indiv=try&h=9628785

susan h
04-02-14, 21:49
Chrissie, please can you say how you know Willie's birth was registered in Rochdale, does your friend have the certificate? It's just that he seems to always give his place of birth as Huddersfield.

I've been looking at the online tree you refer to, and there's things which don't add up but I need to look at in more depth. At the moment my concentration isn't good as hubby has the TV on LOUD, he'll be trotting off to bed soon and I'll be able to concentrate better. Flippin' husband's eh? Only joking I wouldn't be without him - just wish he didn't need the TV so loud.

Chrissie Smiff
04-02-14, 21:56
This is getting so complicated - I think I have found the marriage for the one who went to Canada. He married as William and gave father as Samuel - Iron Turner. I believe that Willie/William and his wife Eliza both died in Coventry (found both deaths).

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1891&indiv=try&h=9628785

Chrissie Smiff
04-02-14, 22:07
Chrissie, please can you say how you know Willie's birth was registered in Rochdale, does your friend have the certificate? It's just that he seems to always give his place of birth as Huddersfield.

I've been looking at the online tree you refer to, and there's things which don't add up but I need to look at in more depth. At the moment my concentration isn't good as hubby has the TV on LOUD, he'll be trotting off to bed soon and I'll be able to concentrate better. Flippin' husband's eh? Only joking I wouldn't be without him - just wish he didn't need the TV so loud.

Sorry - I was just about to tell you that I was sorry, I told you wrong. I believe that he was registered in Huddersfield as Willy in June 1864. His Baptism (as Willie) was in Rochdale in 1867 when he was three years old. No, the furthest back that my friend has seen certs for was his Grandfather Frank Henry Crowther who was born in Nottingham in1905 and his father was George Henry Crowther and mother Alice nee porter. His mother remembers her grandfather George and when they all died etc. I found the various census for them and worked backwards. He wanted me to see if I could find more information going backwards but I think he was hoping that some of the certs would be on line (so was I):)

Speaking of hubby's, mine has been out this evening at a play reading, hence my spending the last 3 hours searching:) I didn't go with him because the church hall is freezing in winter:)He is due home any minute, so I shall be disappearing soon. Thanks for all your help.

susan h
05-02-14, 00:15
If the passenger list to New York is the Lunn's being researched here, then obviously Sarah must have returned to England, unfortunately incoming passenger lists on Ancestry are 1878 - onwards. Sarah married in 1863, so aged only 15!!!. To have met, courted and married Samuel surely means she must have returned to England by 1862 at the latest when she would be only 14, would she have returned by herself, I doubt it. I cannot find her in 1861, she could be mistranscribed I suppose.

The tree claiming Sarah travelled to US in 1857 has her back in England and on the 1861 census with her mother and a sister, but none of the ages match up!!??? Here's the link.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&gsfn=sarah&gsln=lunn&gsco=&s0RealGL=UKICen&f1=&f2=&f5=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1847&rs_81004011__date=2&f14=yorkshire&f15=huddersfield&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-c&pcat=UKICEN&h=10004922&db=uki1861&indiv=1&ml_rpos=28

I don't think the Ancestry tree is reliable, too many things which just don't add up. None of the US records for George (head of family) add up, for instance the link they give to 1860 census has him on his own, no other family members, and the census says he was born Ireland and his surname is Lown, the link they provide for 1880 states he's single, not married or widowed.

It's odd, as I've had no luck finding any of them who sailed 1857 in US records, how can a whole family disappear? Did they all return to UK, maybe, I've not looked for them in UK census records yet.

I do agree with you Chrissie - your friend is going to have to splash out on Sarah's marriage certificate for us to be able to take things further.

susan h
05-02-14, 01:07
Annie (Anne) born June 1875 Birmingham 6d 228 – Married George Rowley 1893????9 Children ???

Yes, Chrissie, looks like Annie married a Mr Rowley, but he was James not George. You probably knew that but have so many names spinning round your head - it was a slip up;) Happens to me all the time.

Annie did have children, quite a few actually. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&gsfn=ann*&gsln=rowley&gsco=&s0RealGL=UKICen&f1=nottinghamshire&f2=&f5=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1875&rs_81004011__date=0&f14=&f15=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=james&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-c&pcat=UKICEN&h=18388354&db=uki1901&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&gsfn=ann*&gsln=rowley&gsco=&s0RealGL=UKICen&f1=nottinghamshire&f2=&f5=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1875&rs_81004011__date=0&f14=&f15=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=james&f7=&f8=&f9=&gskw=&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-c&pcat=UKICEN&h=5790768&db=1911England&indiv=1&ml_rpos=2

Now to see what happened to May.

susan h
05-02-14, 01:18
Can't find an obvious marriage for May, there's a few but not in Nott's. Oddly there's one in Bury, Lanc's, 1913 to a William LUNN, but probably not her.

I don't see her in 1911.

susan h
05-02-14, 01:50
Now this is interesting, Chrissie.

New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957

Arrival Date: 4 May 1894
Port of Departure: Liverpool,
Ship Name: Britannic

Sarah H Crowther, 47, intended destination Green Point
George H Crowther 11yrs 2mnths
May Crowther, 6yrs 3 mnths

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&gsfn=may&gsln=crowther&gsby=1888&gsb2co=3251%2cEngland&gsb2pl=5279%2cNottinghamshire&gsdy=&gsd2co=1%2cAll+Countries&gsd2pl=1%2c+&sbo=1&sbor=&ufr=0&wp=4%3b_80000002%3b_80000003&srchb=r&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-c&pcat=40&h=4000708327&recoff=8+9&db=nypl&indiv=1&ml_rpos=3

susan h
05-02-14, 01:56
And their return journey.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&gsfn=sarah&gsln=crowther&rg_f9__date=1848&rs_f9__date=2&f18=&f17=&f24=&f16=&f22=&rg_f21__date=1896&rs_f21__date=2&gskw=&prox=1&db=bt26&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=40&fh=4&h=30547310&recoff=&ml_rpos=5

So, Sarah must have been visiting someone, therefore seems her family did go to the Americas, but where? She sailed out to NY, and travelled back from Montreal, the plot thickens!

susan h
05-02-14, 03:38
No luck with Sarah H in 1871 or marriage to Samuel 1863

The UK 1861 with Jane, Sarah Hannah and Ann Ellen seemed OK. The places of birth and dob's fit but can't say about pob for Jane.

On the USA 1861, we have Mary Ann who apparently married Daniel Collins. She has with her (although badly transcribed) George Henry aged 15 and Christopher aged 8. (Lunn).

Vera

Just been looking at the 1860 census, and it does look good IF Christoper COULD be Christiana.

Still not sure about the 1861 UK census, Jane's age seems way out.

Edited to add, looked again at the UK 1861, and it now does look better, Sarah's age seems OK as does Ann Ellen's, not sure though why Jane would return with those two children but not Christiana, - the other children being older could have opted to stay in US

susan h
05-02-14, 03:51
Now this is interesting, Chrissie.

New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957

Arrival Date: 4 May 1894
Port of Departure: Liverpool,
Ship Name: Britannic

Sarah H Crowther, 47, intended destination Green Point
George H Crowther 11yrs 2mnths
May Crowther, 6yrs 3 mnths

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&gsfn=may&gsln=crowther&gsby=1888&gsb2co=3251%2cEngland&gsb2pl=5279%2cNottinghamshire&gsdy=&gsd2co=1%2cAll+Countries&gsd2pl=1%2c+&sbo=1&sbor=&ufr=0&wp=4%3b_80000002%3b_80000003&srchb=r&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-c&pcat=40&h=4000708327&recoff=8+9&db=nypl&indiv=1&ml_rpos=3

Greenpoint is in Brooklyn, isn't that where, or near there that the Collins family were on census returns?

Chrissie Smiff
05-02-14, 12:06
I have just spent so long typing out this reply into word that I got logged out :D

Oh wow Susan, thank you so much. It looks as though she is the right one after all.

Where do I start? I see that Sarah is Sarah A when she travels abroad and due to the fact that she was born Jan 20th 1848 and baptised on June 14th I think I now feel convinced that her birth is the one that Val posted #7 as Sarah Anna Lunn in Huddersfield July-Sept 1848 and that it was a late registration. She was baptised as Sarah Hannah and Sarah H on census/marriage etc but if her birth said Sarah Anna I suppose that would be on her passport.

Sorry yes, Annie did marry James (not George) and had 14 children by the look of it!!

The 1861 does look ok except that Sarah would have been 13, not 11 and Jane would have been 36, not 33. If she had just returned from America though she could have been stressed and said whatever came to mind?

That possible marriage of May looks interesting. It was in Heywood, St James. It is possible that May was introduced to a family member. There is a death for a May Lunn born c1888 in Ashton Lancashire in 1957. Too many William Lunn deaths though to tie the two up. Two likely children, Mary M and Rachel too.

I can’t answer your question re Brooklyn I’m afraid as I can’t see the American census –sorry.

From the marriage cert for a possible Willie (under William) – http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/4994/40458_316692-00448/3876707?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26gsfn%3dWilliam%26gsln%3 dCrowther%26_82004010%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d%26 rs_81004011__date%3d0%26_82004020%3dBirmingham%26r g_81004021__date%3d1885%26rs_81004021__date%3d0%26 _82004030%3d%26rg_81004031__date%3d%26rs_81004031_ _date%3d0%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si %3d0%26gss%3dangs-c%26pcat%3dEPR%26h%3d3876707%26recoff%3d8%2b9%2b31 %26db%3dBirminghamParishMarriage%26indiv%3d1%26ml_ rpos%3d5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
I have come to the conclusion that Sam occasionally called himself Samuel and Willie decided to become William possibly. The date of death for the William in Coventry fits with Willie’s birth.

The main problem I have now is finding a death for Sam/Samuel Crowther born c1843. There is nothing showing up for Nottinghamshire under Sam or Samuel of a close birth date. So I am wondering whether either he remarried and moved away after Sarah died in 1897, he moved away after her death anyway, or whether they split up and he moved away.

Thank you SO much again for all the help from everyone:)

susan h
05-02-14, 12:36
I have just spent so long typing out this reply into word that I got logged out :D Try and get into the habit of writing up into 'Notepad' or similar, and then C&P to FTF. That way you won't lose your hard work ;)


Oh wow Susan, thank you so much. It looks as though she is the right one after all. Yes, it's looking most probable

Where do I start? I see that Sarah is Sarah A when she travels abroad and due to the fact that she was born Jan 20th 1848 and baptised on June 14th I think I now feel convinced that her birth is the one that Val posted #7 as Sarah Anna Lunn in Huddersfield July-Sept 1848 and that it was a late registration. She was baptised as Sarah Hannah and Sarah H on census/marriage etc but if her birth said Sarah Anna I suppose that would be on her passport. Hannah/Anna was interchangeable, as many folks dropped their 'H's' (definitelt the case in Yorkshire), Sarah could have said her name and whoever filled out the passener list heard her name as Sarah Anna. I agrre that her birth is probably the one posted by Val.


Sorry yes, Annie did marry James (not George) and had 14 children by the look of it!!

The 1861 does look ok except that Sarah would have been 13, not 11 and Jane would have been 36, not 33. If she had just returned from America though she could have been stressed and said whatever came to mind? We need to see if that family unit appears on other records

That possible marriage of May looks interesting. It was in Heywood, St James. It is possible that May was introduced to a family member. There is a death for a May Lunn born c1888 in Ashton Lancashire in 1957. Too many William Lunn deaths though to tie the two up. Two likely children, Mary M and Rachel too.

I can’t answer your question re Brooklyn I’m afraid as I can’t see the American census –sorry. I'll recheck, but nearly sure the Collins were in or near Brooklyn

From the marriage cert for a possible Willie (under William) – http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/4994/40458_316692-00448/3876707?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26gsfn%3dWilliam%26gsln%3 dCrowther%26_82004010%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d%26 rs_81004011__date%3d0%26_82004020%3dBirmingham%26r g_81004021__date%3d1885%26rs_81004021__date%3d0%26 _82004030%3d%26rg_81004031__date%3d%26rs_81004031_ _date%3d0%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si %3d0%26gss%3dangs-c%26pcat%3dEPR%26h%3d3876707%26recoff%3d8%2b9%2b31 %26db%3dBirminghamParishMarriage%26indiv%3d1%26ml_ rpos%3d5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
I have come to the conclusion that Sam occasionally called himself Samuel and Willie decided to become William possibly. The date of death for the William in Coventry fits with Willie’s birth.

The main problem I have now is finding a death for Sam/Samuel Crowther born c1843. There is nothing showing up for Nottinghamshire under Sam or Samuel of a close birth date. So I am wondering whether either he remarried and moved away after Sarah died in 1897, he moved away after her death anyway, or whether they split up and he moved away.

Thank you SO much again for all the help from everyone:)

I'll try and locate Samuel's death, but it could be difficult if he moved away from the Nott's area.

Chrissie Smiff
05-02-14, 13:12
Thank you Susan:) Yes, I agree, it's looking almost impossible.

susan h
05-02-14, 13:35
According to the tree the father and some of the children stayed and died in various parts of America Vera. They have an 1861 census with what they say is the mother, Sarah Hannah and Ann Ellen but I think they have the wrong family on that one as various ages and birth places don't match.

Chrissie, the birth places are OK, Jane born Lindley (less than 2 miles from Hudd's town centre), both children born Marsh (about 1.5 miles from town centre) Also, in 1851 the family were living in Marsh.

Val wish Id never started
05-02-14, 14:36
been reading through this Chrissie and got lost ? no surprise ,do you know for sure if Sam was alive when his wife died ??

susan h
05-02-14, 14:55
Sarah's baptism gives abode - Marsh, Hudd's.

Not too sure though about the birth registration, church record says born 20th Jan 1848; a Sept qrt registration seems too far out. Need to check to see if another Sarah Lunn can be found born 3rd qrt 1848.

Chrissie Smiff
05-02-14, 21:50
Hi Susan:) Yes, if you look at my reply 33# I said re the birth reg - I see that Sarah is Sarah A when she travels abroad and due to the fact that she was born Jan 20th 1848 and baptised on June 14th I think I now feel convinced that her birth is the one that Val posted #7 as Sarah Anna Lunn in Huddersfield July-Sept 1848 and that it was a late registration. Still quite late but it could have been registered in early July. And re the 1861 census - [COLOR="#0000CD"]The 1861 does look ok except that Sarah would have been 13, not 11 and Jane would have been 36, not 33. If she had just returned from America though she could have been stressed and said whatever came to mind?[COLOR]. I agree that the places of birth are fine.

Hi Val:) I only know for sure that they were both alive in 1891 and that Sarah Hannah died in 1897 in Nottingham aged 49. Sam was only 48 in 1891, so no reason to assume that he died before her and no sign of a death in Nottm.

Val wish Id never started
05-02-14, 21:59
so do you know who registered her death thats what I wondered was it Sam ?

Chrissie Smiff
06-02-14, 10:26
Sorry Val, I have no idea. I'm struggling to find Sam after 1891 though and am now wondering - with all those relatives in America and Canada whether he might have moved there and died there.