Help with geneology from France?

[jarmon20]

I have been trying to do research on a family member born in France. All i have is his American name which is John Armon and his estimated date of birth which is 1819. His grave here in the U.S. has 1817 as a birth date though. I was told by my grandparents that when he came to the U.S. the last name dropped the letter d. I've tried ancestry, rootsweb familysearch, geanet, and tried to decipher the french genealogy websites but was unsuccessful. Is there anyone out there that can give me a hand from France.

Thank you

[Elaine ..Spain]

One of our members has offered to advise on French research - might be worth leaving a message on the following thread.

http://www.familytreeforum.com/showthread.php/103176-Give-help-for-French-records

However, he hasn't been online for a few months so might be a good idea to send him a personal message as well. Just click on his username to the left of his post and you will see the message option.

[jarmon20]

Ok thank you, I will send him a private message

[kylejustin]

do you have any idea where in france he came from? they do not have centralised registration indexes like in britain, more like the US, records are held at state level. you would need to know where in france he came from in order to find records. most french departments (equivalent of the english county, and american state) have uploaded the parish registers (1500's-c.1790) and sometimes the civil registration records (c.1790-c.1900) to their archives websites. civil registration began under the french revolution, so i am not sure what year exactly, or what is actually covered on a record in 1819.

[PascalMallet]

Ok thank you, I will send him a private message

Thanks to Elaine to lead you to me.

Kylejustin is much right: it's almost impossible to find someone in France with so little information. But here is what I guess: your French ancestor was probably named Jean ARMAND. Jean became John and ARMAND (common family name and christian name as well) lost its D and became ARMAN/ARMON (French name ARMOND is very rare). Problem now is that on Geneanet, the website where I'm a subscriber, there are plenty of Jean ARMAND who were born between 1817-1819. So, please tell me his date and place of death to shorten the name list.

[jarmon20]

Ok what i have is what I got off of John Armon's gravestone. He was born 14 July 1817 in France (location unknown), He died 5 October 1864 in Royalton, Waupaca, Wisconsin, United States. He is buried at what then was called Harrington Cemetery, Lind, Waupaca, Wisconsin, United States.

[kylejustin]

is he on any american census? and if so, does that give a specific birthplace? what about his death record, does that record parents names or birthplace? i know some death records in america included that, but not sure about wisconsin. what about a marriage record? do you have one? once again, any mention of france? do you have a rough year of emmigration?

[kylejustin]

i see a few trees on ancestry. they say he left marseilles and arrived at new orleans on 1 jan 1836, age 15. this would imply someone has seen the passenger list, and if he was born in 1817, he was 18. though none of these say the name of the ship he arrived on.

supposed to have married eliza jane haskins in vermont around 1840. 1850 living in cato, new york. 1860 in royalton, wisconsin.

[jarmon20]

The earliest census he is on that i could find is 1850 in Cato new york. All they say is that he was from France. That is him that married Eliza Haskins and moved to royalton in 1860. Was marseilles a port in france or is that the location of residence?

[jarmon20]

All the census records have his birth date as 1819, so that would have put him at 17 then according to the records. Wouldnt they have had to travel with parents at that age back then?

[PascalMallet]

The earliest census he is on that i could find is 1850 in Cato new york. All they say is that he was from France. That is him that married Eliza Haskins and moved to royalton in 1860. Was marseilles a port in france or is that the location of residence?

Marseilles (no ending S in France) is second most important city in France and a big seaport as well, so probably not his residence. I would ask same question than Kylejustin: have you got his death record or marriage record? Then maybe his birth place will be indicated. For what I know, he would come from the Eastern part of France, possibly the Alpes mountains where ARMAND family name is much common.

[kylejustin]

he may not even have been from france. my great great grandfather swears blind he was born in paris, france. he was actually born in port louis, mauritius. i wonder if jean armond could have come from the carribbean. is there nothing at all you can see for the 1840 census? do the 1850 or 1860 census record details of emmigration? i have seen one or 2 census that record birthplace and date, and emmigration details.

hard to know which american census records what!

[jarmon20]

I seen the 1840 census and it looked like he was listed as a child staying with a different family name. I have tried to find that census again but was unsuccessful. The 1850 & 1860 census is not of much help. It only lists his wife and children of his and hers from a previous marriage. The story has always been that he came from France. My great grandfather posted that story on from his father. But the story was he came through Canada from France but it don't see any evidence to support that claim. As for the Caribbean, I don't think he would have came from there either. Did you find a birth record for someone with that same birth date in Paris, France?

[jarmon20]

I don't have a death record at all. I don't know if our local court house would have that on file, but our local library doesn't go back that far with record keeping.

[kylejustin]

definently ask the local library if such records exist, and where to find them. i don't know what a death cert for your ancestor might contain, america has very different requirements depending on the place and time period. it could contain info like, parents names, birthplace, emmigration details, spouse details, children etc. or it might be simple, regardless, if you can get a copy, it would be useful.

i wonder if you could your hands on the name of the ship he supposedly came on in 1836? the shipping manifest should give some infor on him.

[PascalMallet]

Did you find a birth record for someone with that same birth date in Paris, France?

No result on Geneanet but it is not amazing. As he had no children in France, no one here is looking for him unless maybe as a ancestor's brother. No result either on Paris website, but as they took a ship in Marseilles (South-East of France) and ARMAND is a common family name in same quarter of the country, I can imagine they come from there and not from Paris.

I am afraid I can't help you without more information. Next time I will go to Paris, I can also search on emigration records and passeport records, but I won't go there before April or May, and I can't guarantee to find something.

[jarmon20]

i see a few trees on ancestry. they say he left marseilles and arrived at new orleans on 1 jan 1836, age 15. this would imply someone has seen the passenger list, and if he was born in 1817, he was 18. though none of these say the name of the ship he arrived on.

supposed to have married eliza jane haskins in vermont around 1840. 1850 living in cato, new york. 1860 in royalton, wisconsin.

Do you remember where you seen the 1836 passenger list? Im not finding anything about it.

[jarmon20]

ok, i found all my notes that I had, and i do have info on the 1836 passenger ship. The name was John B. Arman, port of dept was Marseilles, France. The ships name was Saladin, and it arrived in New Orleans. I don't know how to go about getting the info for that passenger list. I do have notes though that his last name must have came up in a 1830's census for Massena, St lawerence, New york. All i have from that census is that there were 4 people in the household, 2 were under 20 yrs of age, 2 were over 20 yrs of age and none of them were naturalized.

[Mary from Italy]

You'll find the passenger list on Ancestry, but it doesn't help a lot.

His age is 15; can't read the occupation, but it might be "grocer". The country he belongs to is named as France.
His name isn't easy to read, but I don't think the middle initial is B. Might be R. The surname could be Aunon or Armon.
He wouldn't have had to travel with an adult at that age as far as I know.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7484/LAM259_13-0609/118152?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dneworleans358%26db%3d%26so%3d2%26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsln%3darman*%26sx%3d%26gs1co%3d2%252cUSA%26gs1pl%3d1%252cAll%2bStates%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d1%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-b&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=LAM259_13-0612

[Mary from Italy]

Double post deleted.