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Is he Terence or is he Thomas?!

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  • Is he Terence or is he Thomas?!

    I'm sorry to be the one that gives you all another puzzle but when I started Nanna's Tubridy family I found the birth of her brother as Terence born in 1923, Great Ouseburn before the marriage of the parents in 1924.

    Now that I'm looking again I've spotted that his name is now Thomas which is his middle name and it's the year 1925. This is now on Ancestry, FreeBDM & FindMyPast.

    His marriage is Terence Tubridy (although it does say Terence M Tubridy oddly enough) to L.Baldwin where he had 7 children, the oldest having a name beginning with T and is female.

    His Electoral Registers are Terence T Tubridy, Essex.

    His death is Terence T Tubridy, Havering, Essex, 1987.

    A message from the oldest daughter to the another relative does also confirm this information and that he was apparently in the Welsh Guards and that he was shot in the leg. Mum also remembers him as Uncle Terry.

    Can anyone help me figure this out please? It's been bugging me for days now.
    Last edited by lennon2011; 10-01-14, 15:36.
    Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

    I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

  • #2
    You've probably discovered, long since, that given names can be highly variable. Names are added and dropped according to whim (or desire to avoid problems or acquire status). They also get swapped around. There can also be differences in the registered name between the one for baptism and the one for civil registration; and the civil registration name can be changed after-date. The ignoring of a name often happens if it's a replication of a parent's name - so a son, whose first name is the same as his father's, may well be called by his second name.

    I'm having a quick look to see what you mean - but I am never wholly surprised by name variations. If that initial is only in eth marriage index, you can't be certain what's on the marriage register: my own name at marriage was incorrectly indexed!

    Christine
    Last edited by Christine in Herts; 10-01-14, 16:30.
    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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    • #3
      I always thought that it was a law to sign forms etc in your birth names? Dad goes by a shortened version of his name as he despises it but he'll use it when it comes to forms as it's the name on his birth cert.
      Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

      I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe post registration the family called him by his middle name "Terence" and it stuck, so he grew up regarding himself as Terry rather than Thomas. ( That's not uncommon - my friend's two children have both, since birth, gone by their middle name.) Has anyone seen a birth certificate to verify what the second forename was? Or a baptism record, to see if the parents had had a change of mind by then?
        If he went by the name of Terence, then it wasn't illegal for him to be married under that name and at death, unless the informant knew differently, s/he would state the name he was always known by.

        Where did you view the 1923 record? FreeBMD (which can be searched by forename only) produces NO hits for the birth of a Terence in 1923 in Gt Ouseburn reg dist.

        Jay
        Janet in Yorkshire



        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

        Comment


        • #5
          There may be some additional confusion, here? There's a birth reg in Gt Ouseburn for a Thomas T TUBRIDY in 1925q1 ... or is that a re-registration after the parent's marriage (can't remember when that came in, now, though I did think it was more recent than that).

          Christine
          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm guessing you got the 1923 birthdate (28 Jan 1923) from his entry in the death index in Q1 1987. The most likely explanation is that whoever registered his death knew his birth day ie 28th Jan but got the year wrong, as there is no matching birth entry in 1923 under either his father's surname or his mother's maiden name. The swapping round of the order of his names, as said already, is very common. Perhaps there was another Thomas in the family or the family just decided they liked Terence better. No it is not a legal requirement to stick to your birth names, as long as any changes are not made for fraudulent purposes.
            Judith passed away in October 2018

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            • #7
              It was when I first started the tree but maybe it was 1925.

              The first ever Tubridy thing that I'd found was this message board from his half nephew which mentioned 1923, plus there's the daughter saying the same thing I probably believed it to be true. I was still of the belief that family was more correct about these things than the actual records.
              Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

              I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

              Comment


              • #8
                You can use whatever name you like, so long as any changes are not implemented to achieve some criminal/fraudulent purpose. (The bright spark who thought that changing his own name would be cheaper than a divorce was onto a hiding to nothing!) It just gets more complicated if you don't have lots of documentary evidence to explain why you are using a particular name and to demonstrate that that is how you are known.

                Christine
                Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lennon2011 View Post
                  It was when I first started the tree but maybe it was 1925.

                  The first ever Tubridy thing that I'd found was this message board from his half nephew which mentioned 1923, plus there's the daughter saying the same thing I probably believed it to be true. I was still of the belief that family was more correct about these things than the actual records.
                  The family may well have been right... but they could have been wrong!

                  Christine
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I should have realized, Granddad Phillips was registered as Albert George Phillips when he died and that's wrong as there's no George in his name. He never knew about the other children that had been born before him so he grew up thinking that he had a twin named George and at the end of his life he grew so delirious that he could see his sister Mary who had died before him and the younger sister Emily who'd died in 1990. ​I love listening to this oddly enough. This then led those that registered his death to think that his name was Albert George.

                    He was right about having a twin named George though, it just ended up being an older brother and that his own Dad was a twin named George
                    Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

                    I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I guess the next step is to attempt to write a letter to the last remaining sibling, how do you write a letter to a relative that you don't know but have heard about through your Mum who never met her either but we've seen photos due to my Aunt who has her daughter on Facebook. That doesn't make sense does it? :p
                      Lennon. Phillips. Thomas. Peacock. Tubridy. Burton.

                      I am the girl from that town & I'm darn proud of it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think that you might usefully post that last question in the Sensitive area. It sounds like the kind of letter that people might have to write in that sort of context.

                        I have some thoughts - but it's such a sensitive topic that it makes more sense to use the expertise of people who've already faced something similar. They will already have faced all sorts of tricky issues and thought them through.

                        Christine
                        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

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