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Puzzle - The beautiful and accomplished Miss Champain

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  • Puzzle - The beautiful and accomplished Miss Champain

    This one has been on the back burner for a year or two, but continues to bug me...
    I thought I would have a reasonably straightforward trail to follow once I found one of my twigs supposedly marrying a baronet. However, it's a brick wall as I can't find a Skeffington baronet who fits the date below. (From what I can remember from digging around at the time, I think I found this baronetcy dying out before this supposed 1817 marriage, circa 1815.) The only reference I have to him and this mystery marriage is from a brief notice in the Bury and Norwich Post, issue number 1821, published on Wednesday 1st May, 1817 which I came across when researching the Champain family. I can't find any other evidence of this marriage.

    At St Mary-le-Bone Church, Sir Wm Skeffington, Bart to the beautiful and accomplished Miss Champain, eldest daughter of John Champain, Esq of Glocester-place, New-road. (All places mentioned are in London.)


    From my research, John Champain's eldest daughter was Ann Champain, born 11 Aug 1793, probably in India as John Champain married his wife Margery Mackintosh in Calcutta in October 1788 and served in the Bengal Civil Service in the 1790s. She was the 4th of his nine children (6 sons, 3 daughters). I have the marriage details for the other two daughters.
    The mystery deepens as Ann Champain died a spinster in Paris in 1870.

    and



    So -
    1. did this marriage ever take place?
    2. If so, what is the name of the beautiful and accomplished Miss Champain and who is William Skeffington?
    3. Any suggestions for finding out more from French records about Ann Champain in Paris? I haven't found any records of her in English censuses so wonder if she had lived there for a good while before her death.

    Thanks,
    Christine
    Last edited by Karamazov; 08-01-14, 11:35.
    Researching:
    HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

  • #2
    The 1815 death can't be related to the 1817 marriage.....



    Not exactly an answer, but at least you can rule that baronetcy out.
    Rick

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Rick View Post
      The 1815 death can't be related to the 1817 marriage.....



      Not exactly an answer, but at least you can rule that baronetcy out.
      Rick,
      Yep, that's the one I had ruled out, therefore I thudded into the brick wall on the Skeffington front.
      Christine
      Researching:
      HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't get any hits searching for Skeffington or Champain in the Bury and Norwich Post in May 1817 on the British Newspaper archive. Where did you find that announcement Christine ?
        Rick

        Comment


        • #5
          The newspaper announcements for the marriage of Julia Margaret say that she is the second daughter of John Champain. Curiouser and curiouser !
          Last edited by Rick; 08-01-14, 16:36. Reason: typo
          Rick

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Rick View Post
            I don't get any hits searching for Skeffington or Champain in the Bury and Norwich Post in May 1817 on the British Newspaper archive. Where did you find that announcement Christine ?
            Hi again, Rick, thanks for your digging into this.
            I've had a look at my notes again. I can't remember exactly how I came across the Bury and Norwich Post announcement but it was probably through the Gale 19th century newspaper collection accessed via my local library. My original notes say it's not possible to read the groom's full name on this scanned record as it doesn't scan the full width of the column so perhaps that's why you didn't get any hits for Skeffington. My original transcription was Sir Wm Skef......, Bart etc.

            However, I then found a further source, presumably via googling, which clarified his name:
            The Monthly Magazine or British Register Vol XLIII part 1 for 1817, page 468
            MARRIED Marriages and Deaths in and near London. Sir William Skeffington, Bart, to Miss Champain of Gloucester-Place, New Road.

            She's no longer beautiful and accomplished!

            Christine
            Researching:
            HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

            Comment


            • #7
              https://familysearch.org/search/coll...&region=EUROPE some French records of FS

              Edna

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Rick View Post
                The newspaper announcements for the marriage of Julia Margaret say that she is the second daughter of John Champain. Curiouser and curiouser !
                Yes, and Caroline Eliza is referred to as his third daughter in her marriage announcement in 1838.
                Incidentally, did you find a British newspaper announcement for Julia Margaret's marriage to Thomas Bateman? If so, could you post the details? I've only managed to find an announcement in the 1823 Asiatic Journal and Monthly Register for British India and Its Dependencies, page 520, again probably via googling.
                Thanks,
                Christine
                Researching:
                HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                Comment


                • #9
                  There's another baronetcy - Skeffington of Fisherwick, but that also died out and the William of the right age died in 1814 without becoming a baronet.
                  Rick

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by clematised View Post
                    Thanks, Edna,
                    Only 5 record sets which I've quickly searched but zilch, unfortunately.
                    Christine
                    Researching:
                    HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      York Herald. Publication date:Saturday 11 October 1823

                      Article text:"On Saturday week, Thomas Bateman Esq. of the Middle Temple. London, only son of the Rev. R Hudson, of Hipperholme. to Julia Margaret. second daughter of the late John Champain, Esq. of the Bengal Civil Services.
                      Rick

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rick View Post
                        There's another baronetcy - Skeffington of Fisherwick, but that also died out and the William of the right age died in 1814 without becoming a baronet.
                        I'd discounted that one too but sometimes you don't trust your own instincts so thanks for the confirmation. In the absence of a suitable Skeffington baronet, I'm beginning to wonder if he was some caddish imposter!
                        Researching:
                        HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Z...ervice&f=false marriage of Caroline Eliza Champain daughter of .........

                          Edna

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
                            I'd discounted that one too but sometimes you don't trust your own instincts so thanks for the confirmation. In the absence of a suitable Skeffington baronet, I'm beginning to wonder if he was some caddish imposter!
                            I'm wondering that too. I can't decide if the marriage announcement is a future marriage or one that has already taken place. If the former, perhaps it didn't go ahead ? Looking closer at the Bury & Norwich Post, 1 can't see an issue published on the 1st May 1817. They seem to be weekly - Wednesday May 7th 1817 - so that means May 1st was not a Wednesday.
                            Rick

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Found it - Wednesday 21st May is issue 1821. It says married (past tense) and as you say neither name can be read due to the folded paper.
                              Rick

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by clematised View Post
                                http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Z...ervice&f=false marriage of Caroline Eliza Champain daughter of .........

                                Edna
                                Edna,
                                You had me all excited there for a moment but this just links to the marriage announcement of the third daughter, Caroline Eliza Champain in 1838 (on pages 127 and 192) and the death announcement on page 285 for Ann Champain, who was John Champains second wife - ie the stepmother of the Ann Champain who died in Paris and who may or may not have married in 1817.

                                And Rick - sorry for getting the publication date wrong for Norwich newspaper so glad you've put me right there - will amend my notes.

                                Christine
                                Last edited by Karamazov; 08-01-14, 19:04.
                                Researching:
                                HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Well there's no marriage for her at the parish church of St Marylebone in April or May 1817 - I just went through the images to make sure. Have you seen John's will on the PCC Wills on Ancestry Christine ? Indexed incorrectly as Champian if you haven't.
                                  Rick

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Rick View Post
                                    Well there's no marriage for her at the parish church of St Marylebone in April or May 1817 - I just went through the images to make sure. Have you seen John's will on the PCC Wills on Ancestry Christine ? Indexed incorrectly as Champian if you haven't.
                                    Rick,
                                    Thanks so much for going thru the Church records, image by image. I really appreciate it - hope it wasn't too time-consuming for you.
                                    it was finding various PCC Champain wills yesterday on ancestry including John's, that prompted me to revisit this Champain-Skeffilngton puzzle via FTF today.
                                    His will is a pretty long document and I have not yet fully read/deciphered it, but his daughter Ann Champain (not 2nd wife Ann) is one of the executors of the will he made on 3 Oct 1819. This further reinforced my suspicion that this supposed 1817 marriage did not take place and this seems to be further backed up by your trawl through the parish church records.
                                    I'd still love to find the story behind this though....Any theories?
                                    Christine
                                    Researching:
                                    HOEY (Fermanagh, other Ulster counties and Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada) BANNIGAN and FOX (Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland and Portland, Maine, USA) REYNOLDS, McSHEA, PATTERSON and GOAN (Corker and Creevy, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ireland) DYER (Belfast and Ballymacarrett) SLEVIN and TIMONEY (Fermanagh) BARNETT (Ballagh, Tyrone and Strangford, Down)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Karamazov View Post
                                      Rick,
                                      Thanks so much for going thru the Church records, image by image. I really appreciate it - hope it wasn't too time-consuming for you.
                                      it was finding various PCC Champain wills yesterday on ancestry including John's, that prompted me to revisit this Champain-Skeffilngton puzzle via FTF today.
                                      His will is a pretty long document and I have not yet fully read/deciphered it, but his daughter Ann Champain (not 2nd wife Ann) is one of the executors of the will he made on 3 Oct 1819. This further reinforced my suspicion that this supposed 1817 marriage did not take place and this seems to be further backed up by your trawl through the parish church records.
                                      I'd still love to find the story behind this though....Any theories?
                                      Christine
                                      It was only about 10 pages, so very quick. It doesn't make much sense, does it ? Why would you announce a marriage in a newspaper that didn't take place ? Perhaps someone else can come up with some suggestions, because I can't think of a good reason ?
                                      Rick

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Wishful thinking on someone's part?

                                        I remember reading years ago about some woman who had been waiting for her chap to propose and in order to help him along a bit, announced in the local rag that their marriage had taken place. It caused such a hoo-ha that the newspaper henceforth insisted that PROOF of a marriage taking place must be provided, lol.

                                        OC

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