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Fraser family missing on census

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  • Fraser family missing on census

    Hi,

    I am new to the site and thought I would ask about a piece of my tree that has perplexed me for a number of years.

    I have located my Great-Great-Grandfather Charles Fraser, his wife Anne (Annie) and there 10 children on the 1911 and 1901 census in London. On the 1891 census in London, Charles is not present but Annie and all the children are (all be it being transcribed under the wrong family name by Ancestry).

    These census's give the place of birth of Annie and her older children as Bolton and Manchester, the 1911 census gives the estimated marriage date as being 1876 which ties in with the birth of there eldest child Florence born in 1877, however on searching for the marriage, none is found, nor is any census details for the growing family in the 1881 census. The family should be in 1881 as below

    Charles 1852 Scotland
    Anne 1853 Manchester
    Florence 1877 Manchester
    Emily Adeline 1879 Manchester
    Francis 1881 Manchester
    I have not been able to find any information to support this .

    Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

    Steve Fraser

  • #2
    Hi Steve and welcome to the forum

    Looking at births for Emily Adeline in the Manchester area c1879, the one that looks most obvious is Emily Adeline Fasana Chorlton Q/E March 1879

    The 1881 has Francis Fasana (26, shoemaker) with wife Ann b 1853 Manchester together with children Florence J (4), Emily A (2) and Francis A (3 months) which would tie in with the older children



    RG11 piece 3918, folio: 77, page 25
    Jackie

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    • #3
      in 1911 it says Charles was born in Lancashire is that right ?

      Comment


      • #4
        this looks to be the marriage:


        Name: Francis Fasana
        Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1876
        Registration District: Chorlton
        Inferred County: Lancashire
        Volume Number: 8c
        Page Number:1058

        possible spouse- Annie Fidler or Emily Augusta Rylance

        do you subscribe to Ancestry at all Steve??

        link to marriage ref in index ---- http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...&rhSource=7619
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #5
          They do all tie in with dates and names of older children, now have to tie them in to possible husbands death and her remarraige to Charles in mid 1880's.

          Thank you for the pointer will start looking for further cluse to tie this together.

          Comment


          • #6
            Francis Fasana married Annie Fidler in Chorlton Lancashire in Jun 1876 8C 1058

            oh pooh beat me to it
            Last edited by Guest; 06-01-14, 18:13.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Night Owl View Post
              Hi Steve and welcome to the forum

              Looking at births for Emily Adeline in the Manchester area c1879, the one that looks most obvious is Emily Adeline Fasana Chorlton Q/E March 1879

              The 1881 has Francis Fasana (26, shoemaker) with wife Ann b 1853 Manchester together with children Florence J (4), Emily A (2) and Francis A (3 months) which would tie in with the older children



              RG11 piece 3918, folio: 77, page 25
              oops I have gone off on a tangent here... apologies Steve.. this Francis [is the one I gave the marriage ref for, but his parents appear to be John & Elizabeth] so not what we are looking for..
              Julie
              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

              .......I find dead people

              Comment


              • #8
                Death for a Francis Fasana in Mar 1897 Prestwich Lancashire 8D 290 age 46

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by stevefraseruk View Post
                  They do all tie in with dates and names of older children, now have to tie them in to possible husbands death and her remarraige to Charles in mid 1880's.

                  Thank you for the pointer will start looking for further cluse to tie this together.
                  Steve,

                  do you have the hyperlink for the 1911 census at all? I'm getting in a bit of a muddle..
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
                    Death for a Francis Fasana in Mar 1897 Prestwich Lancashire 8D 290 age 46
                    so, if Francis dies in 1897.. Annie is then what? living as though she was married to Charles? [she can't have married him in 1876 cos that is when she married Francis]
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                    • #11


                      think this 1911 link

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by stevefraseruk View Post
                        ta!.. do you think that it is possible that Annie was married first to Francis and then somewhere along the lines she set up house with Charles?
                        Last edited by Darksecretz; 06-01-14, 18:50.
                        Julie
                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                        .......I find dead people

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is link to 1891

                          Where Annie is listed as 2nd wife of person next door

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                            ta!.. do you think that it is possible that Annie was married first to Francis and then somewhere along the lines she set up house with Charles?
                            Yes that is a possibility, need to cross check and find marriage if possible or some other record to confirm it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              why would she say married that long? surely if she was legally married she would say how long she had been married to Charles ? seems odd.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by stevefraseruk View Post
                                Yes that is a possibility, need to cross check and find marriage if possible or some other record to confirm it.
                                hmm, on Lawrences marriage cert [1914] he states Charles as his father. [and Lawrence was b 1892]

                                Name: Lawrence Reginald Fraser
                                Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1892
                                Registration District: Edmonton
                                Inferred County: Middlesex
                                Volume: 3a
                                Page: 312

                                [his birth^^^]

                                I don't see the twins after 1891 did they die at all? maybe there will be something in the parish records re bapts or death index..

                                have to nip out now but will be back a little later..
                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by stevefraseruk View Post
                                  Yes that is a possibility, need to cross check and find marriage if possible or some other record to confirm it.
                                  Having checked my links, I have birth records for the children Adrian 1886, Rupert 1888, Horace and Vincent 1890, Lawrence 1893, Stephen 1894 and Paul 1899 all registered as Fraser. That points to Charles and Annie getting together between 1881 census and 1886 when Adrian was born.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                    hmm, on Lawrences marriage cert [1914] he states Charles as his father. [and Lawrence was b 1892]

                                    Name: Lawrence Reginald Fraser
                                    Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1892
                                    Registration District: Edmonton
                                    Inferred County: Middlesex
                                    Volume: 3a
                                    Page: 312

                                    [his birth^^^]

                                    I don't see the twins after 1891 did they die at all? maybe there will be something in the parish records re bapts or death index..

                                    have to nip out now but will be back a little later..
                                    Horace died in 1891 aged 1



                                    Vincent is still shown on census's

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      fasana.jpgdeath record of Francis Safana in The Manchester Evening News 25 Feb 1897

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
                                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]17071[/ATTACH]death record of Francis Safana in The Manchester Evening News 25 Feb 1897
                                        Checking the death records



                                        This shows him as about 46 at death, making his birth 1851 - where census shown birth 1855

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