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Our resident expert Stephen Rigden, pictured below, answers your queries.
From Pam Murphy:
‘I’m trying to find the record of John Smith born in St Albans, Hertfordshire in 1824. He is in Parkhurst Barracks in 1851, not married, and nowhere in 1861. In 1871 he is living in York with second wife Teresa, who he married in 1869. The certificate says he was a widower, living with their two children of one and three months, but also three children born in Ireland, so I guess he got married between 1859 and 1861?
He was a corporal but I can find no marriage for him as I don’t know where he was living, and the records for the army say they did not go to Ireland until 1866. He served in the 67th foot regiment, and was discharged in 1864 – his number was 2192. He was in the militia as a sergeant in the 2nd/3rd West Yorks regiment until 1881 when he was discharged.
He died in 1901 in York. I want to find his first wife, who must have died between 1865 and 1869, but with no name to go on I have had no luck. I would also like to find out what happened to his first three children. Any help would be much appreciated.’
Stephen says:
‘Hi Pam
Thanks for your question about… John Smith! You will have to take this search step by step, and exercise patience.
Firstly, I checked the 1871 census return that you mention. This shows John Smith’s first three children, John, Catherine and Mary J, born between circa 1860/61 and 1864/65 in Ireland (with no reference to a specific place). These are the children from his first marriage. The children of his second marriage, born in England, are also shown but are not our immediate concern.
Then I reviewed the Chelsea Pensioner record for John Smith, to which you refer in your email. This confirms that Pte later Cpl 2192 John Smith served with the 67th Regiment of Foot (the South Hampshire Regiment) for 21 years, from February 1843 to March 1864. For three of those years he was overseas in Gibraltar; the rest of the time he was in UK (which of course included the entire island of Ireland at that date). He started to receive his army pension in 1864, at the same time as he joined the militia as a Sergeant in the 3rd Btn of the West Yorkshire Regiment, in which he remained until 1882.
With research such as this, one has to be alert to every possible clue, and to try to tease out as much information from every record to help orientate the research. The Chelsea Pensioner record clearly shows John Smith being discharged from the 67th Foot while in Athlone. From the date of discharge, we know that the youngest child, Mary J, would have been born in or before March 1864 (slightly earlier than suggested by the 1871 census).
So what can we do with this information?
Firstly, we can check a resource on findmypast.co.uk called the 1861 Worldwide Army Index. This gives the location of men serving around the world, the majority of whom are not enumerated in the 1861 census of England & Wales. Searching the 1861 Worldwide Army Index is a little time-consuming for a name such as John Smith, but our 2192 Cpl John Smith is there and the information is good – he is described as serving in Athlone with the Depot of the 67th Foot. So now we know that he was at Athlone (Co Westmeath) in 1861 and in 1864 – and, quite probably, in the years in between.
Next, we can check another findmypast.co.uk resource, the British nationals armed forces births 1761-2005. This includes those records that the General Register Office held which the army forwarded to them, which they have indexed. If we search these, we find an entry for Catherine Smith in the GRO Regimental Birth Indexes 1761-1924. The registration of birth took place in 1861 at the depot of the 67th Foot in Athlone. This looks a little earlier than the year of birth for Catherine (1862/63) that the 1871 census suggests, and of course Smith is a common name; however, the combination of matching not so common forename plus regiment plus place points strongly to this being the middle child of the first marriage of Cpl Smith.
To advance the investigation, you need to purchase this birth certificate. The index gives the details needed to make an online application to the GRO. When you receive the certificate, hopefully it will confirm that John Smith was the father. If it does, it will name his wife – at least give her forename and, let us hope, her maiden surname as well. This then enables you to pick up the search for John’s marriage, and to look for his first wife’s premature death before 1869 and into his wife’s side of the family. It would also give you the date of birth for Catherine, without which it could prove hard to research her line.
Good luck with this, Pam – you’ll need it!’
If you’d like to send your question to Stephen, please register or opt to receive newsletters in ‘my account’. Stephen only has time to answer a couple of queries each month but if yours wasn’t answered this month, you could be lucky next time!
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Please note: This post has originated from a news feed from an external website.
Family Tree Forum neither endorses nor is responsible for the views of the author or any other content.
From Pam Murphy:
‘I’m trying to find the record of John Smith born in St Albans, Hertfordshire in 1824. He is in Parkhurst Barracks in 1851, not married, and nowhere in 1861. In 1871 he is living in York with second wife Teresa, who he married in 1869. The certificate says he was a widower, living with their two children of one and three months, but also three children born in Ireland, so I guess he got married between 1859 and 1861?
He was a corporal but I can find no marriage for him as I don’t know where he was living, and the records for the army say they did not go to Ireland until 1866. He served in the 67th foot regiment, and was discharged in 1864 – his number was 2192. He was in the militia as a sergeant in the 2nd/3rd West Yorks regiment until 1881 when he was discharged.
He died in 1901 in York. I want to find his first wife, who must have died between 1865 and 1869, but with no name to go on I have had no luck. I would also like to find out what happened to his first three children. Any help would be much appreciated.’
Stephen says:
‘Hi Pam
Thanks for your question about… John Smith! You will have to take this search step by step, and exercise patience.
Firstly, I checked the 1871 census return that you mention. This shows John Smith’s first three children, John, Catherine and Mary J, born between circa 1860/61 and 1864/65 in Ireland (with no reference to a specific place). These are the children from his first marriage. The children of his second marriage, born in England, are also shown but are not our immediate concern.
Then I reviewed the Chelsea Pensioner record for John Smith, to which you refer in your email. This confirms that Pte later Cpl 2192 John Smith served with the 67th Regiment of Foot (the South Hampshire Regiment) for 21 years, from February 1843 to March 1864. For three of those years he was overseas in Gibraltar; the rest of the time he was in UK (which of course included the entire island of Ireland at that date). He started to receive his army pension in 1864, at the same time as he joined the militia as a Sergeant in the 3rd Btn of the West Yorkshire Regiment, in which he remained until 1882.
With research such as this, one has to be alert to every possible clue, and to try to tease out as much information from every record to help orientate the research. The Chelsea Pensioner record clearly shows John Smith being discharged from the 67th Foot while in Athlone. From the date of discharge, we know that the youngest child, Mary J, would have been born in or before March 1864 (slightly earlier than suggested by the 1871 census).
So what can we do with this information?
Firstly, we can check a resource on findmypast.co.uk called the 1861 Worldwide Army Index. This gives the location of men serving around the world, the majority of whom are not enumerated in the 1861 census of England & Wales. Searching the 1861 Worldwide Army Index is a little time-consuming for a name such as John Smith, but our 2192 Cpl John Smith is there and the information is good – he is described as serving in Athlone with the Depot of the 67th Foot. So now we know that he was at Athlone (Co Westmeath) in 1861 and in 1864 – and, quite probably, in the years in between.
Next, we can check another findmypast.co.uk resource, the British nationals armed forces births 1761-2005. This includes those records that the General Register Office held which the army forwarded to them, which they have indexed. If we search these, we find an entry for Catherine Smith in the GRO Regimental Birth Indexes 1761-1924. The registration of birth took place in 1861 at the depot of the 67th Foot in Athlone. This looks a little earlier than the year of birth for Catherine (1862/63) that the 1871 census suggests, and of course Smith is a common name; however, the combination of matching not so common forename plus regiment plus place points strongly to this being the middle child of the first marriage of Cpl Smith.
To advance the investigation, you need to purchase this birth certificate. The index gives the details needed to make an online application to the GRO. When you receive the certificate, hopefully it will confirm that John Smith was the father. If it does, it will name his wife – at least give her forename and, let us hope, her maiden surname as well. This then enables you to pick up the search for John’s marriage, and to look for his first wife’s premature death before 1869 and into his wife’s side of the family. It would also give you the date of birth for Catherine, without which it could prove hard to research her line.
Good luck with this, Pam – you’ll need it!’
If you’d like to send your question to Stephen, please register or opt to receive newsletters in ‘my account’. Stephen only has time to answer a couple of queries each month but if yours wasn’t answered this month, you could be lucky next time!
More...
Please note: This post has originated from a news feed from an external website.
Family Tree Forum neither endorses nor is responsible for the views of the author or any other content.