Mary " DEGAW "

[Scratch And Patch]

After contacting, Brant County O.G.S., once again, I have come up with this information...

" Grace Anglican Church Marriages 1836 - 1861 "

William Dodman & Mary " DEGAW ", both of Blenheim Twp., married 25 Jan 1841, Methodist Church, by Banns, Witness, Freeland Graham & Ann Graham.

" Is it possible to find any parents & siblings, for Mary " DEGAW? " Birth est. 1822!!!!!!!!!

Yours Truly
Jeff

[AlanC]

Where is Brant County OGS....................guessing it's America somewhere?
I could only find a marriage in Missouri 1860 for a Mary Glise Degaw and this one marries Francis Joseph Schultheiss

[Elaine ..Spain]

Alan, Brant County OGS = Brant County Ontario Genealogical Society.

Jeff, have you seen a copy of the original marriage document.
I have no idea what sort of information might be contained in it, maybe names of witnesses might give further clues.
It seems to have been recorded on the OGS website, under the "Name Index" so presumably they could provide a copy if you haven't already got one.

If not you could request the film/fiche from a local LDS centre and view it that way.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Perhaps investigating the marriage of Freeland Graham & "Ann" would give clues - who were their witnesses?

What was the marital status of Mary Degaw when she married William?

Jay

[AlanC]

Noted Elaine, thank you. I did try Canada thru Ancestry.........no responses.

[Scratch And Patch]

1. Mary DEGAW, was single at time of marriage to William. She was born in Oxford County, Blenheim District, On., Canada. She married William in a Methodist Church, since this was both their religion. The birth date of Mary is not actually known & is est. at 1822, through census records. But... through out her life & other records we get numerous birth dates. Mary was Illiterate, of FRENCH ETHNIC. For her wedding the witnesses were Freeland & Ann Graham.

Yours Truly
Jeff

[Janet in Yorkshire]

1. Mary DEGAW, was single at time of marriage to William. She was born in Oxford County, Blenheim District, On., Canada. She married William in a Methodist Church, since this was both their religion. The birth date of Mary is not actually known & is est. at 1822, through census records. But... through out her life & other records we get numerous birth dates. Mary was Illiterate, of FRENCH ETHNIC. For her wedding the witnesses were Freeland & Ann Graham.

Yours Truly
Jeff

And if you care to investigate the marriage of Freeland & Ann, you may find Ann's maiden name to bear some significance to your research into this family.
Also their son......

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Using the FREE resources familysearch.com and Library & Archives Canada, I have traced Mary Ann Singer (the married daughter of 1841 marriage witness Freeland Graham) to Bothwell in 1901 census. With the Singer family was Richard Hipkins, recorded as “Wife’s uncle.”
Richard Hipkins was the younger half-brother of your ancestor John Dodman and his other Snettisham born siblings - William, Ann & Elizabeth. This 1901 census return links the Graham and Dodman families. (Have you looked at the 1851 Dumfries census image for John & Mary Jane Dodman & noted ALL members of the household?)
As Elaine pointed out in an earlier post above, investigating the names of marriage witnesses may provide important clues; often they were relatives and/or close friends.

[Scratch And Patch]

Using the FREE resources familysearch.com and Library & Archives Canada, I have traced Mary Ann Singer (the married daughter of 1841 marriage witness Freeland Graham) to Bothwell in 1901 census. With the Singer family was Richard Hipkins, recorded as “Wife’s uncle.”
Richard Hipkins was the younger half-brother of your ancestor John Dodman and his other Snettisham born siblings - William, Ann & Elizabeth. This 1901 census return links the Graham and Dodman families. (Have you looked at the 1851 Dumfries census image for John & Mary Jane Dodman & noted ALL members of the household?)
As Elaine pointed out in an earlier post above, investigating the names of marriage witnesses may provide important clues; often they were relatives and/or close friends.

Eh Janet; Yes Richard Hipkins was Mary Ann's uncle & 1/2 bro to the Dodman's mentioned. In his last days Richard is being taken good care of the Singer family. Richard died Jun 1901, Thamesville, Kent County, On. From " Apolexy!!! " Richard R.I.P., Mayhew Cemetery, Thamesville. I also believe Richard lies in the plot with the Singer family!!!

Yours Truly
Jeff

[Scratch And Patch]

Eh Janet; Thank You Very Much For Your Time & All The Useful Information Given!!!!!!!!!!!

Yours Truly
Jeff

[Scratch And Patch]

And if you care to investigate the marriage of Freeland & Ann, you may find Ann's maiden name to bear some significance to your research into this family.
Also their son......

Jay

Thank's a lot Janet for all the useful information. I will follow up on Your Leads!!!!!!!!!!!

Yours Truly
Jeff

[Scratch And Patch]

Alan, Brant County OGS = Brant County Ontario Genealogical Society.

Jeff, have you seen a copy of the original marriage document.
I have no idea what sort of information might be contained in it, maybe names of witnesses might give further clues.
It seems to have been recorded on the OGS website, under the "Name Index" so presumably they could provide a copy if you haven't already got one.

If not you could request the film/fiche from a local LDS centre and view it that way.

Elaine; I will be going to Brant County, Ontario Genealogy Society, myself, searching this information. Thank's for all your help, Elaine!!!!!!!!!!

Yours Truly
Jeff

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Are you sure that Richard died in 1901? Familysearch has his death as 25 May 1911 and the free index on Ancestry has a 1911 death for a Richard Hipkins in Kent County. (It is very easy to press the wrong computer key when inputting data onto one's PC and many of us have done this over the years.:o)

The familysearch record has Richard's birth year as 1829, which is out by a few years. However, I am not too worried about this, as age at death (in 1911) was given as 92yrs - this information was only as good as the knowledge of the informant, who would have been either his niece, or one of her children (or their spouse.)
Richard Hipkins (as opposed to Hopkins) is an unusual name and I think the above record is for Richard, son of John Hipkins & Mary Dodman nee Pilgrim. However, if you are quite sure that Richard Hipkins died 10 years earlier in 1901, then perhaps you could post your source of information so that I can locate it and verify the date for my records. (I try very hard to have a tree which is as accurate as I can make it.)

Jay

[Scratch And Patch]

Eh Jay: " SORRY ", my mistake, yes Richard died 25 May 1911, from Apoplexy. Richard's obituary was released in the " Thamesville Herold ", June 1st 1911. But... with Richard's birth records, in my possession, Richard was born 1838, Oxford County, Blenheim District, On., Canada.


Also I have Richard's marriage records. Richard married to a, Jane Ambrose, Jan 1st 1884, Thamesville, Kent County, On., Canada. At age 46 yrs. for this event, thus with this information, Richard's birth date becomes, 1838.

As for Richard's mother Mary, I have confirmation stating, she returned to Norfolk Eng., shortly after this wedding event &, died 17 Mar 1884.


Yours Truly

Jeff

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thanks for that Jeff.

Yes, I have a date of c1838 for Richard's birth and also the details of his marriage, but not of Jane's death.

What records do you (or your contact) have, please, for Mary's return to England and her death in Norfolk in 1884?
The only Mary Hipkins death that I can see in the England/Wales death registration index in 1884 was for the death of a 70 year old lady in Dudley, Staffordshire - this is the wrong part of the country and the deceased was much too young, having been born c1814, just one year before Mary's first marriage!
I don't see an 1884 Norfolk death for a Mary Dodman or a Mary Pilgrim either, although I wouldn't expect her death to have been registered in either of those names anyway.

I think she was born Dec 1796 - so I'm doubtful about her making a sea voyage in 1884 to live alone in England when she would have been 88 years old.
She and Richard were recorded in Blenheim in 1871; in 1881 Richard was still in Blenheim but living alone. Mary's children William, Elizabeth (and I believe Ann too) were deceased and she was not at the home of her son John Dodman. Have you found her in 1881 census in Canada? I haven't and although I haven't found a likely Canadian death or burial, I think she was most likely deceased.

However, I shall be delighted if you can reveal otherwise

Jay

[Scratch And Patch]

Eh Jay; I may be wrong once again for Mary's death, back in Norfolk. I do know she was in Thamesville,
On., Canada. For Richard's wedding 1 Jan 1884. Mary signed the Wedding document. After this event Jay, I have lost Mary's trail completely. But I did receive other, information, from England, stating Mary's return & death date. The source of this information has now retracted, what they claimed.


Sorry Jay, for the rat race. The other source, was supposed to be " CONFIRMED INFORMATION!!!! " So now I am back to square one with Mary Pilgrim/Dodman/Hipkins, " WHAT HAPENED TO HER & WHERE DID SHE GO? "


As for Richards wife Jane Ambrose other than birth & wedding records, parents, this is it Jay, I have no death records for her at all!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yours Truly

Jeff

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Eh Jay; I may be wrong once again for Mary's death, back in Norfolk. I do know she was in Thamesville,
On., Canada. For Richard's wedding 1 Jan 1884. Mary signed the Wedding document. After this event Jay, I have lost Mary's trail completely. But I did receive other, information, from England, stating Mary's return & death date. The source of this information has now retracted, what they claimed.


Sorry Jay, for the rat race. The other source, was supposed to be " CONFIRMED INFORMATION!!!! " So now I am back to square one with Mary Pilgrim/Dodman/Hipkins, " WHAT HAPENED TO HER & WHERE DID SHE GO? "


As for Richards wife Jane Ambrose other than birth & wedding records, parents, this is it Jay, I have no death records for her at all!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yours Truly

Jeff

Have you seen an image of the marriage certificate to know that Mary signed it ? When she married Nicholas Dodman, she made her mark (x) because neither she nor Nicholas could write their names. I have a copy image of that page of the Fring marriage register as well as a transcription.

I have seen a TRANSCRIPTION of Richard's marriage, on familysearch and Mary's name was recorded (as was John Hipkins' name). However, it was normal procedure for both sets of parents to be named on the record for Canadian marriages and doesn't mean that any of these persons were present, or still living.
If you have an image of the original certificate (a primary source) rather than someone's written transcription of what was recorded at the marriage (a secondary source) are you saying that Mary Hipkins signed this certificate as a witness? If so, did she sign her name or make her mark ? Who was the second witness? If Mary Hipkins was a witness, is there anything to indicate that it was Mary Hipkins the mother of Richard, as opposed to a daughter or daughter- in- law of a relative of John Hipkins? ( I think John Hipkins had a brother Richard who also went to Canada and married and had a family.) Do you have copies of the images of the marriages of any of Mary's Dodman children so that you can compare signatures of witnesses?

I'm sorry to bombard you with questions but I cannot help further without knowing more details of exactly what kinds of sources you have consulted, and whether or not these are on line. I don't have access at home to Ancestry worldwide for Ontario records or for records of incoming sailings to the UK. However, I still think it unlikely she returned to Norfolk from Ontario in Spring 1884 at the age of 87 or 88. Perhaps someone else would be kind enough to look for us.
(I have her date of birth pencilled in as probably having been 18 December 1796 - however, Mary was a "married in" on my tree. My concern is really with Nicholas and his children, with whom I share diluted Dodman genes.)

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I have just checked the images of the Snettisham marriage register 1813 - 1837 on familysearch. Mary's second marriage to John Hipkins is on image 32 and both bride and groom marked, as did the two Hipkin witnesses, one of whom was a Richard Hipkin.


Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

This transcription of Richard Hipkin's marriage was on the Ontario Vital Statistics Project:

"5474-84 Richard HIPKINS, 46, confectioner, Blenheim twp., Thamesville, s/o John HIPKINS & Mary DODMAN, married Jane AMBROSE, 35, widow, Kent Co. England, Bothwell, d/o Stephen BRITT & Jane EDWARDS, witn: Mary Ann & Willie Harman SINGER of Thamesville, 1 Jan 1884 at Thamesville"

(I had guessed Jane was a widow as her surname at time of the marriage matched neither that of her father nor her mother.)

So, there is nothing in the record to indicate that Mary Hipkins was present at the marriage - we know Richard's father was long deceased by 1884.
Looks like the witnesses were Richard's niece Mary Ann & her son, who would have been in his mid teens.

Incidentally, what do you know of Mary Ann's brother Edward? I have lost him after 1871. Did his wife die and he remarry?

Jay

[Darksecretz]

I don't have access at home to Ancestry worldwide for Ontario records or for records of incoming sailings to the UK. However, I still think it unlikely she returned to Norfolk from Ontario in Spring 1884 at the age of 87 or 88. Perhaps someone else would be kind enough to look for us.

Jay, if you can give me the details i'll have a look and see if I can spot anything, Mary Dodman? is who you are looking for in passenger lists??