soldier's wills released

[kylejustin]

not sure if someone posted this a while back, but british soldier's wills from 1850-1986 have been released online.

story:

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/11/29/soldiers-final-wills-released-100-years

search site:

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/

[Sue1]

I wonder what happened to the Wills of Soldiers who didn't die during this conflict - were they returned to the soldier, added to his paperwork or ? Have never seen them in soldiers records when searching records of those who didn't die. Logically, I presume they made civilian Wills in the normal way - if any Will at all.

Sue

[Vonny North West]

I have my father's Army Service book from WW2. One of the pages is dedicated for a Will to be written. He survived his military service, and kept his book.
Vonny

[JudithM]

Snap Vonny, I was just about to say the same about my dad's WW2 Army Service Book.

[WendyPusey]

My Grandfather was killed in WW1 but his service papers didn't servive, and I can't find a Will for him. So it looks as if that didn't survive either.

[Sue1]

My Grandfather survived the first Anglo Boer War, WWI and died in the Home Guard - I don't think he made a civilian Will or if he did I haven't found it. His WWI records AND his HG records have not survived.

Does anyone know when the fire/bombing occurred that destroyed military records?

Sue

[AntonyM]

Does anyone know when the fire/bombing occurred that destroyed military records?

Sue

It was the WW1 service records that were badly damaged in September 1940, in a bombing raid which hit the War Office depository in Arnside St, London where they were stored. By combining the Pension records (which did survive) with the damaged records that were rescued from the bomb damage the TNA reckon you have about a 40% chance of finding a service record for a non commissioned soldier.

[Night Owl]

There was a thread about the wills a few weeks ago. I managed to get a copy of my late great uncle's will from there. It doesn't say much other than he left everything to his mother but it was good to have something written and signed by him. It was also another piece of the puzzle.

When I first started researching him, I knew nothing other than he was killed in action aged 21 and is commemorated on the Tyne Cot memorial as he had no known grave. I didn't know what he looked like, what he did pre war etc.

A couple of years ago I was fortunate to be given a box of family papers and photos that none of us knew existed, following the death of a relative. Amongst other things were photos of my great uncle as a child and as a soldier. It also contained his birth cert, the letter from the War Office advising of his death and letters from his commanding officer and a pal who was with him explaining how he was killed. The letter said that he was buried where he fell and a small cross was erected over his grave. All his belongings were buried with him "excepting his pay book which was taken from his pocket by our sergeant". Up till then I thought that his body hadn't been found but it would now seem that his grave wasn't found after the war

The will would have been in the pay book and I would imagine that's how they managed to have it in this release of wills. There is a very good article here about the wills and why only some are available

http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/great-war-people/research-family-story/3306-wills-of-english-soldiers-killed-in-the-great-war.html?utm_source=The+Western+Front+Association+eNewsletter+%28all+members%29&utm_campaign=b5f26c9b60-WFA_Members_eNewsletter_July_2012&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_313ed9e469-b5f26c9b60-299919953

[grumpy]

Looks like I hit paydirt. My uncle was killed during the battle of the Somme and his will appears on the list. Now all I have to do is rake up 6 pounds.

[Sue1]

It was the WW1 service records that were badly damaged in September 1940, in a bombing raid which hit the War Office depository in Arnside St, London where they were stored. By combining the Pension records (which did survive) with the damaged records that were rescued from the bomb damage the TNA reckon you have about a 40% chance of finding a service record for a non commissioned soldier.

How very curious - my Grandfather was killed in 1942 and quite possibly his records were in the burnt series as his "regular" service ended after WWI (in fact after 1920 I believe) BUT his Home Guard record went "walkabout" also - since he was KIA (so to speak) in the Home Guard and there was a posthumous award perhaps they were filed somewhere else or just not returned to the place they should have been. MOD do not have the HG records - wonder where else they could have been stored. Probably still in the Coroners Court!

Sue

[grumpy]

Sue,
If you have a look at the link below you will find it contains a list of just what records were destroyed in the Arnside Street fire after the warehouse was bombed in 1940.

This list was taken from "The long, long trail, which is colocated with the Great War forum.http://

https://www.1914-1918.net/onthetrail/index.php/find-your-soldier/finding-a-soldiers-service-record/the-1940-fire-at-arnside-street/

[Sue1]

Thank you for that - it is an incredibly interesting website which I need to look at closely.
I think my best bet will be to go for the War Diaries - I have one, for St. Eloi which actually mentioned my relative by name and described exactly what happened and how he was injured. These diaries are almost better than individual records because they show the whole picture even if a relative is not actually mentioned.
I know he went to France in 1914 but I am not sure what he was involved in then. I have got an MID somewhere which will probably give me a good clue. Retreat from Mons springs to mind and a DCM at that time. I think he was wounded there for the first time.
I have not cracked, despite advice on this website, how to download Diaries from TNA - I find it an incredibly user unfriendly site but may be one of the few to do so as most people seem to download happily. I presume you can read it before you download a War Diary extract otherwise I would need the whole lot.

[grumpy]

Sue,
The war diaries can be found in the series WO95, some of them have been digitized and can be downloaded for a fee. As far as I know the process of digitizing is ongoing and eventually all the diaries will be on line, otherwise it is a trip to the national archives. Also most war diaries are still in existence but unless your person of interest was an officer it is quite likely that he will not be mentioned by name.

[Sue1]

David, Thanks for that. I am actually into the 9th Brigade, 4th btn at the mo. It goes for April 1914 - August 1919. How on earth am I to chose the page I want if I can't see it - I suppose pay to view and if incorrect, pay again. I suppose I have made progress in that I have never got this far before online!
What are the TAGS for - there aren't any for this set of records.

Sue

[AntonyM]

When you download a war diary, you get the whole thing (for the reference you have chosen) - sometimes they include more than one battalion or regiment, and you need to check carefully that it is for the correct years. Some cover the whole war, and some are split into different years. The key to finding the right diary is to know what battalion (not just regiment) your ancestor served in. Also worth looking at different levels of diary - they were kept separately at divisional and brigade level. There are war diaries in series WO 154 (mainly higher level and intelligence related) and many maps and plans, originally taken from the war diaries, are in WO 153.

The content isn't indexed, so unless you know the date you are looking for - you may have to read through hundreds of pages. I believe the TNA have now digitised all the diaries, and the plan is to have them all available on-line by sometime next year (many already are).

The content can vary - from sketchy one line entries where a month is covered in a single page, to extensive descriptions of events where one day can cover several pages. As mentioned individuals from the "other ranks" rarely get named (but it does happen occasionally). Officers are much more likely to get a mention by name - often when they join or leave the battalion or get killed/wounded.

Many do survive - but there are some missing where the diaries have been lost. If that happens, it can be worth trying to find the names of the officers posted to a particular battalion and then see if any of them survived to write memoirs or battalion histories after the war. A lot of them did, and they can be really useful in filling the gaps.

[grumpy]

Well, thanks to the very good service I received and, remembering that we are nearly half a day ahead I sent
a request yesterday (Sunday) and the reply was there this morning (Monday). As expected there was very little info in the will, anyway nothing that I didn't already know. Still the exercise was well worth it.

[Sue1]

When you download a war diary, you get the whole thing (for the reference you have chosen) - sometimes they include more than one battalion or regiment, and you need to check carefully that it is for the correct years. Some cover the whole war, and some are split into different years. The key to finding the right diary is to know what battalion (not just regiment) your ancestor served in. Also worth looking at different levels of diary - they were kept separately at divisional and brigade level. There are war diaries in series WO 154 (mainly higher level and intelligence related) and many maps and plans, originally taken from the war diaries, are in WO 153.

The content isn't indexed, so unless you know the date you are looking for - you may have to read through hundreds of pages. I believe the TNA have now digitised all the diaries, and the plan is to have them all available on-line by sometime next year (many already are).

The content can vary - from sketchy one line entries where a month is covered in a single page, to extensive descriptions of events where one day can cover several pages. As mentioned individuals from the "other ranks" rarely get named (but it does happen occasionally). Officers are much more likely to get a mention by name - often when they join or leave the battalion or get killed/wounded.

Many do survive - but there are some missing where the diaries have been lost. If that happens, it can be worth trying to find the names of the officers posted to a particular battalion and then see if any of them survived to write memoirs or battalion histories after the war. A lot of them did, and they can be really useful in filling the gaps.

Many thanks Antony. Have downloaded Royal Fusiliers Diary, 9th brigade, 4th btn - there is loads of it and it has obviously, very good descriptions of what went on. Unexpectedly I did find my relatives name mentioned c1915 when he was a CSM (not an officer) but the info contained re that part of the war was enough in itself. Sue

[AntonyM]

As CSM he was the highest non commissioned officer rank, and a very important person in the battalion hierachy - so it isn't too unusual for him to get a mention.