Sometimes the clues are there.

[AlanC]

My grandfather's death record has been difficult to find. Asking a cousin for help, I now find that on her Mother's marriage certificate, her father(my grandy) was showing as already dead in Jan 1941. I haven't found his death yet but it narrows the search field down a bit.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Alan

I don't want to rain on your parade but I'm afraid that just because someone SAYS their father is dead doesn't make it fact. There are a few reasons why someone might lie - had fallen out with father, father had left home, didn't want father to know she was getting married (underage?).

However, I agree, you do have to start somewhere, with some kind of parameters. Let's hope she was telling the truth.
Can we help look?


OC

[AlanC]

Yes OC, I take your point. This man was loathed by his children and it is just as easy to say he is dead.
I posted some time ago about him, Herbert Molyneux c1877, Liverpool Toxteth Park and you wont be surprised that there are a few options.

[Guy]

I couldn't agree more OC.
My father left us when I was young (about 7) I quickly found it was far easier to say he was dead when teachers asked us to speak about our parents or write essays about them.
It cut any further probing immediately.

However that had repercussions over 50 years later when my brother died intestate. Because I had not researched my father's side of the family, mainly due to loyalty to my mother, I had to pay a good sum of money for a "professional" research company to try to trace if he was still alive and after they could find no trace of him another sum for insurance in case he turned up and claimed from the estate.

Just another instance that the truth causes less harm than lies. ;)
Cheers
Guy

[angelina]

I have searched on ancestry and as you say there are a quite few options esp as the spelling can be so erratic with the surname
Herbert Molyneux d March 1940 Prescot
Herbert G Molyneux b1872 d 1949 Pancras
Herbert Molyneux b 1882 d 1941 East Glamorgan
Hubert Molyneux b 1876 d 1960 Surrey SE
but Molyneux can be Molyneaux, Mullineaux, Mulleneux etc etc.
I saw on 1911 census that he was an engineer so maybe he moved for work? only suggestion isthat you go thru all the probates and see if any fit but if he was so horrid he may not have left the family anything or ever made a will.
sorry cant be of more help.

[AlanC]

Thanks Angelina, we'll probably never know.
It's sad to say, 'who cares'..............he was a wife beater, a drunkard and a bare knuckle fighter and no-one mentioned his name until I started 5 years ago when no-one left to ask. That of course is one side of the argument, no way of knowing the other.

[angelina]

Alan- any chance of a family grave anywhere that he may be in? or death notice in the newspapers?

[Christine in Herts]

Looks like there's a Winchester Probate record for this one, living in Camden:
Herbert G Molyneux b1872 d 1949 Pancras

Probate granted to Arthur Henry Molyneux, consultant engineer.

The Herbert Molyneux in 1911 was more specific about his work - as a "fretter & turner" (it actually looks a bit like "fritter"!)

Christine

[Christine in Herts]

And as for father's being dead on marriage certs when they're actually still alive - I have two of those in my tree!

My mother's parents' cert records her maternal grandfather as dec'd, but he didn't die for another 16 months. My parents' cert records my paternal grandfather as dec'd in 1941, but I'm pretty sure he didn't die until 1967.

Christine

[Tilly Mint]

Alan, I've had a google for Merseyside "bare knuckle fighters"...sorry, no luck.

[Christine in Herts]

Tom Molyneux is very famous as having been a "bare knuckle fighter". Is there any connection? ... or have we discussed that already?

Christine

[Guest]

there is a Herbert Molyneaux Death in Sep quarter 1922 Warrington Lancashire 8C 164 aged 42

[AlanC]

Christine, Family could only afford one Christian name :-)......and no sign of a Thomas in the Tree.
Jacky, thanks for trying.
Val, the age doesn't match up or the place but if he'd left home he could have died anywhere and too many Death Certs to buy.
Cheers all.