Identifying the father of the groom help?

[stevie2006]

This is the photo of my great grandfather Solomon Smith who married Isabel Ward in 1918.

Solomon is of course the man in the middle of the front row with the walking stick but wondered if anyone might be able to help me guess who is his father - also called Solomon - in the photo. He was alive and well at the time and would have been around 52 ish - he was born in 1866. He was a waterman/lighterman.

I know its total guesswork but have often wondered if it would be possible to guess Solomon senior? Is there a certain etiquette in a wedding photo ie would the father and perhaps mother of the groom stand anywhere particular or is there anyone that looks a bit like Solomon junior?

Just a complete stab in the dark but wondered if anyone had an opinion?

Many thanks as always

Steven

[stevie2006]

PS I think the man behind Solomon junior might be his brother John who was also in the Royal Artillery in WW1 and looks a lot like Solomon?

Steven

[susan h]

Is there a certain etiquette in a wedding photo ie would the father and perhaps mother of the groom stand anywhere particular or is there anyone that looks a bit like Solomon junior?

Usually the groom's father would be behind the bride and vice versa.

[Guest]

How wonderful a photo of Solomon ,in my wedding photos my parents are on my side and Toms on his,

[susan h]

How wonderful a photo of Solomon ,in my wedding photos my parents are on my side and Toms on his,

I think that in modern times things were less formal and folks did just what the h*ll they liked, indeed some liked to buck the trend for the sheer h*ll of it and to deny formalities.

My parents wedding photo (1940) when folks still conformed to traditions has dad's parents on my mum's side and vice versa.

[AlanC]

There are only 3 men who look old enough to be fathers so perm any one from three.

[stevie2006]

Thanks Susan. Val I know it's great and so tantalising to know that there are probably so many family members in the photo and I only know a small amount.

Alan yes the man on the right looks too old so maybe the man on second row far left and two men with hats?

Steven

[Anne in Carlisle]

The photo is quite an informal one for a wedding. Maybe it was just a random group from the guests? Dad might not be there at all!
hmmm ... just noticed the empty chair front right. Wonder who was supposed to sit there?
Anne

[Darksecretz]

I think that there are three men that are related, Solomon obviously in the middle [as groom] the gentleman to the far left behind the woman seated with the child on her knee, and the gentleman that is stood between the two men with hats on. the eyes and nose look very similar in all 3 men. Unless you can come up with some 'other' family photos that could prove/disprove these men and narrow it down abit. Speculation and proof positive are two different animals.

[stevie2006]

Oh no Anne don't say that lol!!

Great spot Julie - I did think the man on the far left looked similar - maybe Solomon snr (but as you say just speculation). The man in between the 2 with the hats does look like Solomon - same hair, eyes maybe John his brother?

I looked at the marriage certificate again and the 2 witnesses are Florence Ellina Rebecca Smith - the younger sister and maybe she is the young woman on the immediate left of Solomon? The 2nd witness is a Samuel Scott - never heard of him - maybe he was the best man and a friend of Solomon and I would guess the man standing behind Solomon?

Thanks for looking

Steven

[stevie2006]

Maybe the ruddy face of the man on the far left could be Solomon - he worked as a Lighterman out in the open and getting the sun etc

Steven

[vera2013]

Maybe the chap on the far left behind the woman with baby on knee. He has a button hole (I think its a button hole), altho another chap has one further back but father of the groom not likely to be at the back.

Vera

[Darksecretz]

I would think that the gentleman behind solomon would be his best man, and possibly someone he fought with.

the three that I have mentioned have heavy brows, and yes, I do think that the gentleman on the far left has a 'weathered'/rugged face.

I think [though don't know for sure!!] that immediate family members would have a corsage/buttonhole and guests wouldn't. [though I am not totally sure on protocol for this, so may be a google would help!]

[stevie2006]

Thanks Vera and thanks Julie. Good call re the button holes. When I really look at Solomon and then the man on the far left second row their faces are similar (I hope its not me just hoping they do) they look very alike. I am thinking the best man must be Samuel Scott that was a witness on the marriage certificate.

Isabel Ward, my great gran and Solomon's wife is on the right of Solomon - obviously the bride. Her mother Clara Ward I also know now is second left on the front row.

Isabel had 5 sisters - Ethel the eldest born 1893 (approx. 25), then Rose born 1897 (approx. 21), then Grace born 1901 (approx. 17), Hilda born 1904 (approx. 14) and finally May born 1912 (approx. 6)

Solomon's sister was born 1898 (approx. 20)

Solomon's father Solomon senior (approx. 52) his wife Mary Ann (approx. 42)
Isabel's mother Clara - found her and her 2nd husband James Driscoll

Its just trying to perhaps tie them all up

Thanks again for all the help

Steven

[stevie2006]

That would make sense - do you think the 5 girls in the front row are all bridesmaids? If so that's all 4 older sisters plus Solomon's sister Florence

Steven

[Darksecretz]

That would make sense - do you think the 5 girls in the front row are all bridesmaids? If so that's all 4 older sisters plus Solomon's sister Florence

Steven

sorry have been a little busy..

could you repost the photo and then put L>R in 'rows' who you think the people are underneath the photo? or edit the header [that'd be better] and add the names under that one.

I do think so yes in answer to your question, bridesmaids, all wearing similar dresses/mopcaps/corsages. have you tried looking for Mr.Scott?

regarding corsage etiquette: http://www.elegantwoman.org/corsage-etiquette.html

[stevie2006]

To be honest Julie I hardly know anyone

Here is the photo again and I have also posted some photo's of some of the potential guests. However these photo's are later on but I do know who they are



Family photo - bottom row from left to right

2nd left Clara and wee girl in front on her right is May the youngest daughter. Middle Solomon and to his right Isabel Ward (bride)




Hilda Ward - above



Grace Ward above




From left to right - Isabel, Ethel and mum Clara




Older photo of the sisters from left to right Hilda, Grace, Rose, May & Isabel

Sorry to post loads of photo's and thanks

Steven

[Darksecretz]

Isabel Ward, my great gran and Solomon's wife is on the right of Solomon - obviously the bride. Her mother Clara Ward I also know now is second left on the front row.

Isabel had 5 sisters - Ethel the eldest born 1893 (approx. 25), then Rose born 1897 (approx. 21), then Grace born 1901 (approx. 17), Hilda born 1904 (approx. 14) and finally May born 1912 (approx. 6)

Solomon's sister was born 1898 (approx. 20)

Solomon's father Solomon senior (approx. 52) his wife Mary Ann (approx. 42)
Isabel's mother Clara - found her and her 2nd husband James Driscoll

Its just trying to perhaps tie them all up

Thanks again for all the help

Steven

can you refresh my memory Steven, how old was Isabel when she married Solomon?

[stevie2006]

Hi Julie she was 23 (born December 1894)

Steven

[Darksecretz]

looking at this picture Steven I think that Grace & Hilda are the two younger girls that are on the right of Isabel as you are looking at it.