pennsylvania

[julip]

Could anyone help with tracing a family who possibly emigrated to Pennsylvia USA 1881c
.They seem to have gone between 1881 and 1882, they are back in Scotland in 1855 c
Not sure I have the right info.

William Tait b 1851c Moffat ,Dumfrieshire
Agnes Porteous b 1856 Wamphray ,Dumfrieshire ,(wife)
Janet b 1878 c Wamphray Dumfrieshire (daughter)
Isabella b 1880c Moffat Dumfrieshire (daughter)
Elizabeth b 1882c Pennsylvania (daughter)
John 1885c Moffat Dumfrieshire ( son)
William b 1885 Moffat DFS (son )
Joseph b 1887 Moffat Dumfrieshire (son)
Adam b 1887 Moffat DFS (son)
Agnes b 1889 Moffat DFS .(daughter )



Agnes , wife, aged 15 , is on 1871 census ,Bridgend ,Dumfrieshire. Can`t seem to find them on 1881 census in Scotland .They are all on 1891 and 1901 census in Scotland . It seems a bit odd that they only stayed for a few years .

Any information would be greatly appreciated

EP

[vera2013]

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7488/NYM237_427-1117/12651610?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dwilliam%26gsln%3dtait%26msbdy%3d1851%26msbpn__ftp%3dscotland%26msady%3d1882%26cpxt%3d1%26uidh%3d326%26msadp%3d2%26_83004003-n_xcl%3df%26cp%3d12%26pcat%3dIMG_PASSLISTS%26h%3d12651610%26recoff%3d8%2b9%26db%3dnypl%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d4&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

There is this one arriving in New York 10th June 1880

William Tait aged 28 Engineer
Agnes aged 24

Agnes aged 2
Isabella an infant

Vera

[Elaine ..Spain]

Julip, if you cannot see the link Vera has given you (Ancestry worldwide), then you will also find them on the Castle Garden site (free!)

http://www.castlegarden.org/search_02.php?m_ship=ABYSSINIA&po_port=&p_first_name=&p_last_name=tait&o_occ=&co_country=scotland&province=&town=&m_arr_date_start=1880&m_arr_date_end=1880&submit.x=81&submit.y=10

(click on surname for more details)

[julip]

Hi Vera
Many thanks for the passenger list , I am pretty sure it is the family I am looking for ,except for Agnes ,2, which I have as Janet .I know from experience names do get changed .
Elaine ,
Thanks for the link on Castle Garden site, it looks even more promising ,as William had a brother Joseph ,ages match . I have never heard of this site, do you know if I can access it for incoming passenger lists . If I can find them returning with Elizabeth , that would clinch it .
Much obliged to you both
Evelyn

[Elaine ..Spain]

No. Castle Garden won't have any incoming passenger lists (i.e. back to UK).

The only one I can think of is the Ancestry Incoming Passenger list -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1518

- and I can't see them on there.

[julip]

Elaine ,
Thanks for trying to find the family. I just can`t find them on 1881 censuS in UK, so am inclined to think they did go to USA. Will keep plodding away .
Evelyn

[Elaine ..Spain]

Evelyn, on the passenger list the occupation for William is given as Engineer. Does this fit in with what you know?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Late 1870's to early 1880's was a time of rapid expansion in coal mining, steel mills, railways and shipping in Pennsylvania. All of these would have provided employment opportunities for men with engineering skills. Sometimes agents came over to the UK to "poach" prospective candidates, sometimes they procured equipment/processes from UK companies, who in turn sent over skilled people to oversee its introduction and initial stages.

Jay

[Elaine]

Just wanted you to see this link

https://familysearch.org/search/collection/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Atait~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Awilliam~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Aagnes~&collection_id=1951739

I just keep getting image available so can't have a look

[Elaine]

1880 Census was taken 10th June, think they would have missed that one and so 1881 Scotland too

[Elaine ..Spain]

Julip is having problems logging into the forum today - so has asked me to post the following message so you don't think she is ignoring you all!

Thanks to all for info.much appreciated . William is listed as blacksmith on 1891 census ,so wondered about `engineer`, but according to hubby they were also known as engineers ,so probably OK This would fit in with Jay`s info on Pennsylvania needing skilled workers in the early 1880s. The only child born in USA was Elizabeth ,rest were born in Moffat . I am pretty sure this is the right family ,wonder why they came back ? Still looking for William on UK 1871 census ,will be interesting to see what his occupation is , but nothing yet .
Thanks
Evelyn

[vera2013]

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1871Scotland&indiv=try&h=805441

Julip if you manage to get back on. This is a 'Hellen' Tait aged 20 with Joseph and Isabella also other sibs including Joseph aged 11. Think it could be a mistranscribe for William as also transcribed as Son but then also a Draper's Assistant so maybe not.


Not sure if Joseph and Isabella are correct parents and don't have credits for Scotlands People to confirm mistranscribe.


Vera

Vera

[julip]

Many thanks to all for info,much appreciated . William is listed as blacksmith on 1891 ,so wondered about `engineer`,But my husband has just mentioned that they were also known as engineers as well . This would fit in with Jay`s info.re skilled workers in USA. The only child born in USA was Elizabeth ,rest were born in Moffat . Wonder why they came back? I am pretty sure this is the right family . I am still looking for William on UK 1871 Census , interested to see his occupation.

Evelyn

[julip]

Elaine ,
Thanks for putting it on , back on line !

Vera ,
I think you may have found him! Birth date matches William ,and I don`t have a Hellen for offspring . Draper`s a bit of a worry, but he is only 20, so possibly he could change direction .

I don`t have worldwide subs , but I have just remembered my local library has access to Ancestry . I saw several names in family for returning to Glasgow from New York . I will go tomorrow and see if I can match them up. They should all be together ,hopefully with William`s occupation .
Evelyn

[vera2013]

Julip If you have any problems accessing Ancestry at the library or wish to, put the details on the thread. I could take a look see.

Vera

[julip]

Vera ,
Thanks for the offer , I will certainly let you know .
Evelyn

[julip]

pennsylvania

Vera ,
Went to library this morning but couldn`t find anything ,I know it is in there somewhere. Hope you can help .
Evelyn

William Tait b 1851 Moffat head blacksmith or engineer
Agnes Porteous b 1856 Wamphray wife
Agnes Tait b 1878 Moffat
Isabella b 1880c Moffat
Elizabeth was born 1882 in Pennsylvania. So possibly 3 children coming back before 1885 ,as next child was born 1885 in Moffat .DFS.

I found 1911 census ,Moffat ,Dumfrieshire again Elizabeth was listed as being born in USA., middle name AUSTIN . There is actually an Austin in Pennsylvania !

[julip]

Vera ,
I found William and Agnes in Pennsylvania quite by chance . Agnes is actually in my husbands tree , she is the daughter of my husbands 3x g grandfather`s second wife . As the Porteous clan is rather large I have been concentrating on the main branch and had not done any research on this second marriage until now . As a result I did not know William`s mothers name ,Isabella Moffat . I had done some research on the Moffat Clan, as they are also related to my husband , and decided to see what I could find . Believe it or not there was William and his brother Joseph . It turns out that they already had family in the US , and that must have been the reason they went . I quote ``Joseph and Belle`s sons William and Joseph both came to America ,where they had family . They did not stay long . When Will came over ,like his brother ,he visited with his family ,at his Uncle Thomas Taits home in Bradford .He rented them a house ,gave them a cow, but they did not like it,and soon went home .``That solves the puzzle of Elizabeth being born in Pennsylvania. I also found them on 1911 census ,in Moffat ,again Elizabeth listed as born in USA , and 8 children born and 8 children living ,so no other children were born in USA ,as I have 7 born in Moffat . So they definitely returned to UK , but can`t see when ,but probably 1883/4. Interestingly Elizabeth`s middle name on census is AUSTIN, there is an Austin in Pennsylvania , googled that !

I still have a bit of work to do on William`s side , but at least I know now the story of Elizabeth`s birth is right , it seemed so improbable .
Many thanks to all for your help as always , the immigration was very helpful ,set me on the right road . One more puzzle solved of many !
Actually I have a post script to this story ,when I found Agnes a while ago . I have her death cert ,which states she died in Peterhead prison in 1933 at the age of 77. Must find out why,but that is another story .You never know what will come up.

All the best
Evelyn

[vera2013]

Hello Evelyn

Can you just confirm where you saw/read the information listing

William Tait b 1851 Moffat head blacksmith or engineer
Agnes Porteous b 1856 Wamphray wife
Agnes Tait b 1878 Moffat
Isabella b 1880c Moffat
Elizabeth was born 1882 in Pennsylvania

Was it an incoming journey to the UK from the USA. I have looked previously (as Elaine did) and could not find anything listing their return to the UK. I looked again for Joseph but can't find him returning either or in the UK after 1871.

Just re-read your previous posts and think perhaps you are referring to the family information and not something you saw on Ancestry.

Unfortunately not all the passenger movements are listed on Ancestry at present.

I have seen the 1891 census for Elizabeth which confirms she was born in the USA. Just to confirm the Austin part of her surname, did you pick that up from the 1911 census on Scotlands People's.



Vera

[julip]

Vera ,
No problem .The details of William, Blacksmith were taken from Scotlands People census .The incoming journey to UK could be from New York, that was their port going to USA. I can`t think where else they would have landed . The story about them not liking America was taken from the Clan Moffat website,it says `they `did not stay long ,but that could refer to William and his family ,so Joseph could have stayed . I have tried to contact the submitter but have not got a reply as yet. On that site is William`s grandmother Elizabeth Austin , m to Adam Moffat , that is probably where Elizabeth b 1882 got her middle name ,it is on 1911 census also. Anything else you want just ask .
Evelyn