Researching a familysearch marriage record

[Gwyn in Kent]

I was asked for local help re. details of a marriage found on familysearch, but when I looked at filmed copy of the parish registers, the marriage was not there.
I made a note of the names of the couples marrying either side of that date( but not witnesses) hoping to be able to find out some clues, but am going round in circles. I find references to the same batch number etc. but there seem to be extra marriages which weren't on the film.
Can anyone help please?

Originally searching for listed marriage of John SMITH to Ann SAPER on 29 Oct. 1817 at Dymchurch, Kent.
The filmed entry I saw dated just before that was for Wm. POPE to Mary JENKINGS on 11 October 1817
and
The entry I saw after the date was for Wm. MURTON to Mary Wenn COLEMAN on 5 November 1817
(my husband tells me this is shown as NEWTON not MURTON on familysearch)
There is apparently another October marriage shown if you search by batch / film number, ....
I'm fairly sure that these filmed entries were from one page of a register. ie. no page missed from film.

Any help would be great please.........

Gwyn

[SmallTownGirl]

Could it be the difference between the original PR and the Bishop's transcript?

[PhotoFamily]

the familysearch entry is from this film. It's an Archdeacon or Bishop's transcript (not sure which):

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/458749?availability=Family%20History%20Library

which film did you look at?

[Bertie]

There are three sets of records on this film [1786434]:

1.Archdeacon's transcripts, 1562-1812; Bishop's transcripts, 1603-1905 Church of England. Parish Church of Dymchurch (Kent)

2.Archdeacon's transcripts, 1558-1812; Bishop's transcripts, 1605-1868 Church of England. Parish Church of Eastchurch (Kent)

3.Archdeacon's transcripts, 1563-1812; Bishop's transcripts, 1603-1893 Church of England. Parish Church of Eastling (Kent)

Looking at the three records on Familysearch, the other two marriages (Pope/Jenkings & Newton/Coleman) are shown with reference ID 7 and the one you want, in between these two, is listed with reference ID 8. This suggests something is odd with the transcribed Familysearch details of the record: either the date is wrong or the attributed parish is wrong. I would look for the date in the three parishes first to test the latter hypothesis and then different dates in Dymchurch.

[Bertie]

I see there is also a 20 Oct marriage at (apparently) Dymchurch (Eizabeth BEAL) which should be after Pope/Jenkings on the same page you saw but was obviously also not there! Again this has a reference ID 08.

So - I suspect it is on the film somewhere but not correctly transcribed

[Bertie]

My guess is that id 08 is item 2 on that film, i.e. Eastchurch Parish

[Gwyn in Kent]

Thank you both for your input.
I did ask for the film of the actual registers as I know from experience that the more times an entry is copied, the more scope there is for mistakes to creep in.
The records in Folkestone library are easy to access , so I will go back and check again, making sure I have original records and no pages are missed.
Like you say Bertie, there is more than one marriage apparently missing in that time period if these are true Dymchurch records.
I will let you know if I find John Smith and his spouse..............

Gwyn

[Gwyn in Kent]

Ah... just saw your update....Thank you.
That is a more suitable location I think for the family being researched, but those records are not so near here.
I will check my list of supposed Dymchurch marriages against PRs and BTs and see where that takes me, but I suspect the answer may lie elsewhere.

Gwyn

[Bertie]

Hi Gwyn - as you know Eastchurch (Sheppey) is a long way from Dymchurch. I have tried to access this great site

cityark.medway.gov.uk

but there seems to be a problem accessing it today. I cannot remember which parishes they have (I know they are close to Eastchurch) so it might be worth trying there when the site is back up

[PhotoFamily]

Or, if that's not successful, requesting familysearch to send you a copy (free)

[Anne in Carlisle]

I have sometimes suspected "marriage" entries to be taken from banns books. No concrete proof to hand at the moment but I recall seeing the same marriage at two churches and realised it must be banns. Probably the marriage did take place ..... but not necessarily!
Anne

[SmallTownGirl]

I have sometimes suspected "marriage" entries to be taken from banns books. No concrete proof to hand at the moment but I recall seeing the same marriage at two churches and realised it must be banns. Probably the marriage did take place ..... but not necessarily!
Anne

FS certainly indexes from Banns books and uses the date of the third (or last, if not three) reading as the marriage date. Only if the marriage date is given in the Banns books do they use that date instead. And yes, they index Banns even if the book says that the marriage didn't take place. Confusing, innit?

[Gwyn in Kent]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts on this.
I have had contact with the researcher I was trying to help, who tells me the marriage did not show in her Eastchurch records.
I will now make sure that I check banns listings for Dymchurch too...

[Gwyn in Kent]

No banns books available at the library today, but I checked both the PR and BT films for SS.Peter and Paul, Dymchurch and they tallied for the year searched.
I took with me a printout of 15 marriages which supposedly took place in 1817 according to familysearch. Only 6 were found in the filmed records.
The POPE marriage and the MURTON marriages were both listed on the same page ( p.7) of the register, so definitely no written John SMITH entry missed from filming.

Incase anyone can throw any light on other parish records I could search locally, a couple of the slightly more unusual names of missing couples listed on familysearch as marrying there that year were...
John BIGG to Mary IRONS on 4 March 1817
and
Aaron HODGES to Elizabeth DIGGLE on 6 August 1817.

Gwyn

[Bertie]

From a look at possible baptisms:

Aaron HODGES was from Eastchurch (NB) and Elizabeth DIGGLE was from Minster (on Sea, by Eastchurch)
John BIGG, Boughton Monchelsea (near Maidstone and nearer Eastchurch than Dymchurch) and Mary Irons from Hernhill (nr. Faversham, and not far from Eastchurch)

I still suspect the marriages are accurate in terms of date but wrong in terms of parish and I would still stick my neck out to say they were Eastchurch marriages.

A possible way forward is to use the familysearch photoduplication service giving them the details of the marriage per the transcription but add a note to say you suspect the marriage is not Dymchurch but is elsewhere on the film in another parish. I did this for a record I knew to be incorrectly attributed to a particular parish and they found the record on the film at the other parish I suspected.

[clematised]

https://familysearch.org/blog/en/policy-change-patrons-requesting-photocopies-family-history-library-salt-lake-city-utah/

This may help if you need to ask for a copy of the record but please include all information available from the Familysearch record you have of the marriage batch numbers included.

Edna

[Gwyn in Kent]

Bertie and Edna
Thank you so much for your help... You make good detectives.!

I think it is looking evermore hopeful that the marriage will be found in Eastchurch registers.
As they are not my family and I was only trying to help with a local lookup, I think I will direct the forum researcher to this thread so that she can sort this herself.


Thank you everyone for your help.

Gwyn

[Christine in Herts]

The Medway CityArk site includes registers from around the Medway - so it's places like Rochester, Chatham, Dartford and the like. the list is here: http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/query/r...rds=&DateList=

Christine

[Sparkstree]

I think I have just made a breakthrough! On Findmypast I have found a Marriage Banns records for John Smith and Ann Sofer for 5th Oct 1817 Eastchurch. This means that almost certainly I am going to find the marriage at Eastchurch. As suggested I have emailed familysearch.org for a copy of the entry which hopefully they will find under Eastchurch and not Dymchurch! Thank you for all your help.

Dawn

[Gwyn in Kent]

A good find Dawn.
I'm really pleased for you.

Gwyn