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  • I am thoroughly confused

    Hi all

    This will sound very confused because I am too. I have a birth certificate from July 1940 which says that the baby's dad was a private in the Gloucestershire Regiment. All other details present and correct as far as we can see - birth registered by the mum. The baby's uncle was in the Glosters and so it made sense that the dad would be too, though he was from London not Wales. Having contacted a very nice man on the Glosters website, the uncle has been found - he actually joined up in 1935 - but of the dad, absolutely no sign. No one with that surname in the Glosters at all or with his mum's maiden name. A few possibles with his mum's original married name - his parents weren't legally married - which just happens to be Brown :( - though none of them look quite right and why he'd be using the surname of a man his mother left 20 years before he was born is a mystery anyway. He certainly used his own name on the electoral roll and to get married.

    So, now being thoroughly confused, I'm wondering where he actually was. We have his entry from the 29th September 1939 Registry in his own name and from that he would have been conscripted, being only 27. Could he have been somewhere unpleasant like jail and the mum has used her brother's army details on the birth certificate to make it look better? Was that legal, especially in wartime? Or should I be looking in one of the London regiments since he was living in Hendon before the war?

    Any suggestions gratefully appreciated

  • #2
    I don't think you can make any assumptions about which regiment anyone was in during the war because if someone was conscripted they could be put anywhere.
    I would search for his name only and check all those you find.

    Margaret

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    • #3
      Thanks. That's a really good point. I wonder if he originally enlisted in London and then transferred to the Glosters.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Felix View Post
        Thanks. That's a really good point. I wonder if he originally enlisted in London and then transferred to the Glosters.
        That could very well be and maybe the records did not reflect the true position. It could also be that she didn't really know and though it was the Gloucesters or even that he started off with the Gloucesters and moved to another regiment later.

        Margaret

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        • #5
          Her brother was a regular soldier with the Glosters so I would say that's why he would have transferred - but it's only supposition. I know very little about the UK situation, but I do know that my Aussie granddad and his brothers transferred soon after they were conscripted so they could all serve in New Guinea together.

          I'm wondering now if this guy would have originally enlisted in the Middlesex Regiment since he lived in Hendon.

          Thanks
          Last edited by Felix; 09-10-13, 15:00.

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          • #6
            There is often no rhyme or reason which regment a person went into and they did often change regiments. I have one from the First W War who started a off in a school for children whose fathers were in the 33rd Regiment, and on finishing was transferred to an Oxfordshire Regiment and then to the Loyal North Lancs Regiment, before finishing up with the Welsh Fusiliers!! He was born and lived in London and so none of them made sense! They do sometimes transfer to be with other relatives. Mine transferred to the Loyal North Lancs because his brother was in that regiment, and a note was made to that effect at the time.

            Are you able to obtain his hecords from the MOD? You will have to prove next of kin and pay£30.

            Janet

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            • #7
              I am confused too! Are you saying his parents weren't married to each other but his mother registered his birth as if they were married? If so, you can't really rely on any information she gave on that cert. the Registrar may have smelled a rat and asked her what regiment her husband was in and she said the first thing which came to mind, which was the name of her brother's regiment.

              OC

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              • #8
                Have you found medal entitlement on Kew TNA website? My father's W War 2 medal entitlements are on there, though he was Royal Navy, but do not think that makes any difference.The medal entitlements should show his regiment, even if he just got the Service Medal.

                Janet

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                • #9
                  WW2 "standard" Army medals aren't online, sadly, only some Gallantry awards citations.
                  The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                  Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi

                    Yes, I have the feeling my man is like yours. Maybe started with a London regiment, moved to the Glosters for family reasons and then moved on somewhere else. His brother in law seems to have moved on detachment too - though said brother in law is far less elusive thank goodness.

                    I can't get his full records no, because I'm not next of kin - but wouldn't it be nice. Thanks. :o

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                    • #11
                      Sorry, I don't explain things with enough clarity. His parents weren't legally married,no, but he was, in 1936 and it was his wife who gave his regiment as the Glosters on their daughter's birth cert in 1940. Their first child was born in 1939 shortly before war broke out and I've got both birth certs. The details are exactly the same, right down to the London address where the children were both born at home - except for the mention of him being a private in the Glosters. Which made sense since he would have been conscripted by then anyway. Just that now the Glosters can't seem to find him. He certainly survived the war so he was somewhere. :o

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                      • #12
                        Thank you both:o

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                        • #13
                          If you were in one of the army corps (e.g. medical or signals) weren't you assigned to wherever there was a need for your services at that particular time? So, over a period of time you could be working alongside a range of different regiments and form friendships with men in one of those regiments, without actually belonging to it yourself.

                          Jay
                          Janet in Yorkshire



                          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                          • #14
                            Hi and thanks. (My grandfather did that as a medic in New Guinea - he had awful eyesight -and then after the war was a cook for the Japanese POW's.)

                            I wonder if something similar could have happened to my UK guy - I know his son was exempted from NS in 1957 on account of his own bad eyes. Might be a more widespread family trait than I thought. :o

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                            • #15
                              You didn't have to have a health problem for you to be placed in the medical corps. My father was in the TAVR and so was called up the day war was declared. As he'd also served in the St John's Ambulance Brigade, he was asked if he would like to join the army medical corps, where his skills and experience could be put to immediate use. And they were - at El Alamein, the Salerno landings and Monte Cassino.
                              Some people were happy to serve their country, but didn't want to bear arms and asked to join the RAMC. It wasn't a cop-out - medics were needed and served at the front line.

                              Jay
                              Janet in Yorkshire



                              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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                              • #16
                                Very true. My grandfather went in 1942, after Pearl Harbour. He was fortunate enough to come home again and live into his 90's.

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                                • #17
                                  Felix'

                                  Is it possible to seek permission from the next of kin to obtain the records or if you are in touch with the next of kin to get them to apply for the records, maybe offering to pay half the cost?

                                  Janet

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                                  • #18
                                    That would be awesome if I could. But his next of kin is his daughter and we can't find her either - if she's still alive. But we're really trying.
                                    Last edited by Felix; 10-10-13, 12:00.

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                                    • #19
                                      Well why don't you just test the water with the MOD and apply for the records saying that the next of kin is not contactible and may even be dead. When I applied for my father's records I was not next of kin or even near it!! I had an older brother alive but totally uninterested and another brother who had died whose 3 children would and should have gone before me, but I did not know whether they were alive or dead or where they lived. However, I was a daughter and I stood my ground over the next of kin issue and they eventually agreed to let me have the record. It possibly all depends how close you are to the person whose records you want.

                                      Janet

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                                      • #20
                                        Good on you for standing your ground. I really admire that. But I'm not closely enough related to apply for them.

                                        Oh well, shall just plod on. Already had lots of help from folks on here which is great :o

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