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  • Burial Registrations

    First time at looking at online burial records, I expected them to be recorded with a little more information. On the top of the sheet it stated The Parish of Leatherhead. However, the record that I looked up, people had their abode as far as Mile End, London; Basingstoke; Epsom and some of the people were from a Poor Union. Somehow I half expected there to be a grave reference? So were people able to chose where they could be buried even if they died outside their local parish? At one point I thought that a person could only be buried in their local parish church or they would have to have special dispensation? It is very confusing?

    Could someone explain the process of how the individual records are grouped and stored please, and the changes over the years in how they were recorded stretching from 1700s to modern day?

    Many thanks

  • #2
    Hello White Mist

    Unfortunately, as is true of many records, what is on there is whatever was recorded at the time by whoever's responsibility it was to do so. A burial record is just that - a record of who was buried in the parish burial ground.

    I don't know the parish concerned but some parishes had odd little outposts.

    If you were born in a parish I think you had a right to be buried there which would account for some of the abodes being ex parochial. Also, if you had purchased a burial plot, you obviously had the right to be buried there. A great aunt of mine who never married was buried in her parents' grave some 400 miles from where she had lived for many years.

    OC

    Comment


    • #3
      It depends on what burial records you are accessing.
      A burial register holds very little information (sometimes as little as name and date) whereas a grave register (plot register, lair register etc.) holds much more information.

      Number of grave, owner, amount paid, interments, plus remarks.

      It should be remembered that the most informative records are seldom online. ;)
      Cheers
      Guy

      P.S Anyone dying in a parish had a right to be buried there. Others though not living in the parish were buried in family plots in the parish graveyard.
      Last edited by Guy; 01-10-13, 09:42.
      Guy passed away October 2022

      Comment


      • #4
        i find cemeteries kept information on plots- who is in them, where they are etc. FMP has some for cheshire. actually i think that was a parish church, bowdon. depends on who was buried where the person is being buried. i have ancestors dying in devon and london but being buried in lincs, where the family line was buried, landed gentry.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank your for your replies and am gradually getting to grips with it. A question or two or three. Nowadays, we have to register a death, there is lots of information on it and a Death Certificate is issued - highly regulated. When did Death registration start? Who was the Registration Body? What happened before death registration was required? What would have happened if a family could not have afforded a burial? If the Poor Law Unions buried people, during an epidemic for instance? Would they have buried people on mass and would the Unions have had to register the deaths? What happened to people who died in an epidemic, would they have had individual graves or be buried en mass? We have dedicated cemeteries and crematorium and we cannot be buried or cremated without a death cert now but what happened then? Many children during the 1800s died at childbirth or very young and although theses children were cited in Censuses, sometimes the baptism was not registered and then thet were not included on the next Census. What is the thinking about these children?

          Many thanks

          One lady that I have just researched to find out if her husband (my relative) was a bigamist. On looking at her burial entry in 1853, I was surprised that she was included in a registration book where there were pages & pages & pages and pages of people dying over many months and there was an entry in the line next to hers that was a child of 8 months who had lived in the same street. As many as 8 in one day alone. There was an outbreak of cholera at the time, but surely the church would not be able to withstand such quantities of persons having to be buried in the church grounds? What happened?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by White Mist View Post
            Thank your for your replies and am gradually getting to grips with it. A question or two or three. Nowadays, we have to register a death, there is lots of information on it and a Death Certificate is issued - highly regulated. When did Death registration start? Who was the Registration Body?
            An ordinance in 1644 required
            "...and also the names of all persons buried in that parish, and the time of their death and burial ; and that said book shall be showed, by such as keep the same, to all persons reasonably desiring to search for the birth, baptizing, marriage, or burial of any person therein registered, and to take a copy or procure a certificate thereof."

            There were also various other Acts of parliament requiring births and deaths be registered to enable taxes to be collected.

            Originally posted by White Mist View Post
            What happened before death registration was required? What would have happened if a family could not have afforded a burial?
            Prior to 1644 Burials were required to be registered in Parish Registers by order of Thomas Cromwell, the Vicar General, on 29 September 1538.
            See


            However as today as long as the relevant authorities are notified of the intention to bury a body it was and is legal to simply dig a hole in the ground and place the body in it.
            Today there are a number of regulations to prevent pollution of water sources etc. but the principle is the same a person has the right to bury another on their own land.



            Originally posted by White Mist View Post
            If the Poor Law Unions buried people, during an epidemic for instance? Would they have buried people on mass and would the Unions have had to register the deaths? What happened to people who died in an epidemic, would they have had individual graves or be buried en mass?
            Yes, both situations occurred, for example during the plague some bodies were buried in plague pits others were buried in individual graves, it depended on the numbers of bodies to be buried at any one time and/or the wealth or lack of wealth of the relatives left behind.

            Originally posted by White Mist View Post
            We have dedicated cemeteries and crematorium and we cannot be buried or cremated without a death cert now but what happened then?
            Almost the same as now the clergymen kept a register of all burials in their parish, if a body was buried other than in the churchyard it was the clergyman's duty to inform himself of the burial and register it. (In 1694 he could be fined £100 for failure to observe this).
            After 1837 the local register took over the duty of registering deaths & burials, later the person burying the body had the responsibility of ensuring the burial was registered.
            See also the following for the relevant Acts of Parliament



            Originally posted by White Mist View Post
            Many children during the 1800s died at childbirth or very young and although theses children were cited in Censuses, sometimes the baptism was not registered and then thet were not included on the next Census. What is the thinking about these children?
            Since 1880 unbaptised persons and suicides have had the same rights as other parishioners to be buried in the churchyard, prior to this they were buried outside the churchyard.

            Originally posted by White Mist View Post
            Many thanks

            One lady that I have just researched to find out if her husband (my relative) was a bigamist. On looking at her burial entry in 1853, I was surprised that she was included in a registration book where there were pages & pages & pages and pages of people dying over many months and there was an entry in the line next to hers that was a child of 8 months who had lived in the same street. As many as 8 in one day alone. There was an outbreak of cholera at the time, but surely the church would not be able to withstand such quantities of persons having to be buried in the church grounds? What happened?
            As long as the gravedigger survived the outbreak the bodies were buried as required, either in single graves, public graves of occasionally mass graves. Our ancestors were very resilient.

            Obviously this is a very limited description of what happened but it should give a basic picture.
            Cheers
            Guy
            Last edited by Guy; 03-10-13, 15:16.
            Guy passed away October 2022

            Comment


            • #7
              If I may add to Guy's explanation - prior to 1875 it was possible to register a death without a medical death certificate, or even without proof that someone had actually died. This was of course done for fraudulent purposes, claiming a burial insurance. So widespread did this practice become, that the various Insurance companies and burial clubs insisted that procedure be tightened and from (I think) 1875, a death had to be certified by a doctor and that "death certificate" had to be shown to the Registrar before a death could be registered.

              Many of my relatives come from what was a small hamlet in the 1700s, high on the Lancashire moors. Because the hamlet was very often snowbound in winter, burials were put off until the ground was soft enough to dig. The local burial register shows a marked lack of burials between December/March and then a frantic burst of activity over a few days/weeks.

              OC

              Afterthought: From the beginning of civil registration (and probably before this) the various Poor Law Unions and workhouses were most diligent in recording births/deaths/baptisms/burials, more so than the general public.
              Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 03-10-13, 21:04.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you Guy, your technical knowledge in valuable giving me a better understanding of how things worked and the links was great. The information enabled me to put things in perspective as one relative was buried in a resused grave in West Norwood Cemetery, it seems. However, just some general questions, if I may? I have come across quite a few children, some mentioned only once in a Census and some that have been baptised but with no online death record. Their parents have moved from parish to parish in each following Census. One child, which was an exception and I have guessed went to live with a her fathers sister, changed her surname, always described as Niece, and stayed with them for about 30years. The others have seemingly disappeared. It would seem to be sensible to put tracing these children aside as it would appear to be a project on their own as I am still constructing trees. What would you advise? Do other people try and trace these children and draw what conclusions?

                Comment


                • #9
                  White Mist

                  Most people would put these "missing" children to one side (recording their birth/baptism, of course) and return to them later, after researching direct lines. Remember also, that even today, what is on the internet is only a fraction of the records which exist and at some point you will have to see original documents to confirm your tree. The internet is only ever a research tool.

                  OC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As Old Crone wrote-
                    Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                    White Mist

                    Most people would put these "missing" children to one side (recording their birth/baptism, of course) and return to them later, after researching direct lines. Remember also, that even today, what is on the internet is only a fraction of the records which exist and at some point you will have to see original documents to confirm your tree. The internet is only ever a research tool.

                    OC
                    Whilst agreeing with the above I tend to trace all birth/baptisms marriages & death/burials as I go along. The reason I do and suggest this is twofold.
                    1. It is good to get into the practice of researching as many records/resources as possible in the course of one’s research.
                    2. When researching prior to civil registration it is often necessary to re-construct not only ones own ancestor’s family but also families bearing the same names to rule them out as possible ancestors.

                    Such re-constructions inevitably involve discovering death/burials; if one gets into the habit of thorough research from the beginning, it becomes the natural way to work.

                    Originally posted by White Mist View Post
                    …I have come across quite a few children, some mentioned only once in a Census and some that have been baptised but with no online death record. Their parents have moved from parish to parish in each following Census.
                    Tip Electoral Registers, are useful for tracing “voters” between census. This can be used to help trace children’s burials between census by knowing the possible location of their parents at the relevant time.

                    Originally posted by White Mist View Post
                    One child, which was an exception and I have guessed went to live with a her fathers sister, changed her surname, always described as Niece, and stayed with them for about 30years. The others have seemingly disappeared. It would seem to be sensible to put tracing these children aside as it would appear to be a project on their own as I am still constructing trees. What would you advise? Do other people try and trace these children and draw what conclusions?
                    How one carries out research and how far they go is of course their own choice, many like myself get as much enjoyment out of the research as from the result.


                    There could be a very interesting reason the child went to stay with his/her aunt.
                    Whether you are interested in knowing, or are happy to rest with your assumptions or even require more evidence is totally up to you. It is your research after all.

                    I would advise you to discover what you can about the children.

                    However you may not have the resources at hand to be able to do that.
                    I for instance have purchased fiche of the original parish registers for the parishes my ancestors came from. This allows a range of options when researching collateral lines and even neighbours and associates of my ancestors.
                    It also allows me to see additional events in my ancestors’ lives; for instance if they were witnesses at friends marriages.
                    Online sources may be sometimes used in a similar manner. This is not always possible or practical for others.

                    Hope this helps.
                    Cheers
                    Guy
                    Guy passed away October 2022

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sorry, I didn't make myself clear - I meant put them to one side if they are proving troublesome to research! Otherwise I agree - even the most distant twig is worth researching as it often adds so much to your main ancestral research. I would say that in my own tree prior to 1900 or so, no one ever married a random stranger - they were all related to each other in some degree. That will be the same for most people I would imagine. This side research becomes so much more compelling when you discover, for instance, that three sisters married three brothers!

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree O.C. I have often wondered about family loyalties when such marriages happen or rather after such marriages if one (or more) of the couples has the usual marital disagreements.
                        Cheers
                        Guy
                        Guy passed away October 2022

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have found it worth researching siblings. In one case, looking up sisters to the direct line in one census showed them living with their maternal grandmother, about whom I'd not previously had any info.

                          Christine
                          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you all once again and to Christine in Herts. I have been following all of your excellent advices doggedly, with amazing success. Quick update - am snowed under with information starting with the little lost child Evalyna, as mentioned earlier, having worked backwards, forwards, sideways and slantways. Have so many interconnections that am snowed under with really interesting information that it is quite difficult to keep in my head and/or to enable me put down on paper (there must be a way but I have not found it yet) and so to explain and support all the online evidence. Have learned the hard way to make notes on sources :( - very crucial when people happened to have both the same christian & surnames that are related either by marriage and/or by a generation step. Have been getting loads of practice to strengthen good discipline as such but sometimes it becomes a bit of a muddle. Received first GRO certificates - unrelated to this thread - which was quite exciting - its quite sad really . Am also having to learn new computer skills too. Such is the life of a beginner!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Before you get buried in paper and strangled by convoluted relationships, it might be a good idea to obtain a genealogy computer package. There are free ones to download, though I've not used one. I use Family Tree Maker, which can often be bought relatively cheaply through sites such as Amazon. It often comes with a 6-month sub. to Ancestry.
                              Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thanks Uncle John, my husband has just bought a 2012 Version of Family Tree Maker which I shall have to leave to him to install etc. And by recommendation have bought 2 books Organising Your Family History Search - Sharon DeBartoli - haven't used the dining room table but getting a bit short of floor space around it. Aso Nuts and Bolt: Family History Problem Solving Through Family Reconstruction Techniques (Andrew Tod's Search and Solve).
                                Trying desperately hard to adopt good habits of best practice - maybe I should get one of these Dummies Books for Genealogy cos that is how it sometimes feels.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I find it quite helpful to concentrate on one family at a time to avoid confusion. I don't mean long term, necessarily, but for example the SMITH family one day and the BROWN family on another day. There is so much information that it can be like being a kid in a sweetie shop and there's a risk of getting families or generations muddled up.
                                  The tree program should help and there will be places on there for you to record your sources, which you've already realised is so important. I didn't record sources at first (you think you'll remember!) and had to go over it all again! Arrrgh!
                                  Anne

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I still use an old fashioned paper tree as well. This is so handy when the chase is on, lol, and you don't want to stop to go to your online programme. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, I use a roll of wallpaper, or a piece of scrap.

                                    OC

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      OC Thanks for the clever & excellent wall paper tip It will help to have three family trees all laid out together on the dining room table – blow the visitors. It will help to see where all the people were at any one particular time, who was with them and what occupation they were performing, at any one given census. That will be soooo cool. I am going to put in a Wanted Add. for either just an odd roll or even a part roll will do.


                                      GRO death certs revealed some really good information and it looks like there is contagious illness at work! The earlier answers in this thread have helped me to understand the process.


                                      Need expert knowledge here if anyone can help:


                                      I have been speculating about some confusing information contained in the Death Cert of a person that died in a Workhouse:


                                      - What is does “Short Term Inmate” mean?



                                      - In the Occupation Column, the person’s occupation was filled in and his residential address was put underneath,was that normal?


                                      I do not have any Admission date of entry. He was registered as a “Short Term Inmate “in the 1881 Census and died about 9 months later.


                                      Some more questions to confirm something that I think I know?


                                      Am I right, that at some point, Workhouse doctors were able to visit really sick working residents who lived within the Workhouse Parish? The criteria being that they had Rights of Settlement in the Parish but were of poor/modest means? If I am right in that belief, if after examination the doctor found that the sick person would benefit from hospitalisation, would he be admitted to the Workhouse infirmary for treatment? If so would, would the patient then be deemed as a temporary resident ie a “Short Term Inmate” on the basis that he would be expected to leave the Workhouse upon recovery and once discharged then return to work?


                                      Many thanks in advance



                                      White Mist

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Workhouses were used as hospitals for the poor. Short term inmate means just that - hadn't been in there long and was not a permanent inmate of the workhouse. The fact that his usual residential address was given on the DC backs this up - he was in the workhouse because he was ill.

                                        I have never heard that doctors actually went around looking for patients! The sick in the community who could not afford medical care would present themselves to the workhouse. Most workhouses would only have had attending doctors, not residential ones.

                                        OC

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