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**Guest** · 29-09-13, 20:37

I dont quite understand whos Thomas ?

**beadsmore** · 29-09-13, 20:52

Sorry- that was meant to be Frederick!

**Guest** · 29-09-13, 21:36

sorry not found a thing yet ?

**Janet in Yorkshire** · 29-09-13, 22:06

Me neither

Jay

**clematised** · 29-09-13, 22:16

I found the marriage on Familysearch that you have but this is also a possibility why you cant find him name is not the same but similar https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X2P3-JZF May 1921 border crossings from Canada to USA Born 1863 Bristol Frederick Greenstadt

Edna

**Katarzyna** · 29-09-13, 22:27

Do you have the birth and marriage certificates for Frederick? I ask because there are two certs:
Frederick Henry Grimsted Jan 1865 in Clifton, Gloucestershire
Frederick Henry Grimsted Mar 1865 in Bristol, Gloucestershire

How sure are you that you have the correct one?

**Felix** · 30-09-13, 05:13

There are a few public member trees on ancestry that include Frederick Grimsted, born 1865, parents Thomas Grinsted and Ann Doble.

One gives his spouse as Elizabeth, children as Edith and Harry. Another has him dying in Bristol in 1944, but that death record is unsourced.

**beadsmore** · 30-09-13, 05:23

I don't have anything on Frederick yet. It is actually his wife I am interested in.

From his birth certificate I know that my grandfather's mother was Sarah Jane Rogers- but have never found her marriage to John Smith Avery. Both of my grandad's parents died 4 days apart in 1910 when he was nearly 8 so he didn't know anything about them.

i thought maybe they couldn't marry as 1 or both were already married. The 1887 marriage to Fred fits in as I have a Sarah Jane Rogers who fits age wise in 1871 and 1881 and the Sarah Jane I have identified had a father named George.

Sarah Jane and John S Avery are together with a son Robert William Avery ( born 1889) in 1891 and I was hoping to identify Fred in 1891 to see if a Sarah Jane was with him , before I sent of for the marriage certificate- but he seems to have disappeared.

The mystery of who Sarah Jane Rogers really was, was the first thing that really got hooked in genealogy. I am so hopeful that one day I'll work her out!

**beadsmore** · 30-09-13, 06:05

Originally posted by Felix View Post

There are a few public member trees on ancestry that include Frederick Grimsted, born 1865, parents Thomas Grinsted and Ann Doble.

One gives his spouse as Elizabeth, children as Edith and Harry. Another has him dying in Bristol in 1944, but that death record is unsourced.

Most of the trees only have his birth or Fred as a young boy. The tree with Elizabeth as wife may I think, have mixed up Fred with a Henry Grimsted who was born in Chard, Somerset.

i can't find the death in 1944.

**beadsmore** · 30-09-13, 06:07

Originally posted by Katarzyna View Post

Do you have the birth and marriage certificates for Frederick? I ask because there are two certs:
Frederick Henry Grimsted Jan 1865 in Clifton, Gloucestershire
Frederick Henry Grimsted Mar 1865 in Bristol, Gloucestershire

How sure are you that you have the correct one?

I have looked on FreeBmd, but can only see the Clifton one.

**Felix** · 30-09-13, 07:22

I think you're right about the confusion with the Henry Grimsted from Somerset. And, no none of the Grimsted/Grimstead deaths that I can find in 1944 come close to matching the Fred you're looking for. Not much help I'm afraid :(

**Katarzyna** · 30-09-13, 08:47

Originally posted by beadsmore View Post

I don't have anything on Frederick yet. It is actually his wife I am interested in.

From his birth certificate I know that my grandfather's mother was Sarah Jane Rogers- but have never found her marriage to John Smith Avery. Both of my grandad's parents died 4 days apart in 1910 when he was nearly 8 so he didn't know anything about them.

i thought maybe they couldn't marry as 1 or both were already married. The 1887 marriage to Fred fits in as I have a Sarah Jane Rogers who fits age wise in 1871 and 1881 and the Sarah Jane I have identified had a father named George.

Sarah Jane and John S Avery are together with a son Robert William Avery ( born 1889) in 1891 and I was hoping to identify Fred in 1891 to see if a Sarah Jane was with him , before I sent of for the marriage certificate- but he seems to have disappeared.

Could you let us have the info you have on your grandfather' birth certificate first. What were his parents names on the birth cert - mother was Sarah Jane Rogers and his father was John Avery?

What are the refs for the two censuses that you have them on - 1871 & 1881. Just so we start in the same place!

**Katarzyna** · 30-09-13, 09:48

I can't find a marriage for Sarah to John Avery either. I see your problem now. The name Sarah Jane Rogers on your grandfather's birth cert was either a previous marriage name or her maiden name. You need the marriage cert to John Avery to establish that.
It could be that Rogers was her previous marriage name so you would be looking for a marriage of Sarah Jane to a Rogers. Even more confusing.

**beadsmore** · 30-09-13, 10:13

William Smith Avery, my grandfather - Born Avon 1903. Living in Wales in 1911 with paternal Aunt and family.

His parents were John Smith Avery (Bristol 1865-1910) a saddler and harness maker and Sarah Jane nee Rogers also of Bristol. Her dob ranges from 1862 (1901 census)to 1867 (1891)

sorry- can't work out how to attach! -St Philip and St Jacob Bristol as Averef in 1891! St Mary's Redcliffe, Bristol in 1901

I have been looking at possible Sarah Jane Rogers born at the right time, and following them through to see if I can find them in 1891- where I first have my Sarah Jane Rogers.

The Sarah Jane Rogers that seems most suitable was born Bristol in 1862 to George Rogers, Hammerman, and like my Sarah J seems to be known as just Jane. The informant at her death was son Robert, who gave her name as Jane Avery.

**Chrissie Smiff** · 30-09-13, 10:39

Are these are the links to 1891 and 1901 that you mean? -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=GLSRG12_1982_1984-0117&fn=Robert&ln=Averef&st=r&ssrc=&pid=24701690

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7814&iid=GLSRG13_2376_2378-0379&fn=Robert&ln=Avery&st=r&ssrc=&pid=12865598

**Chrissie Smiff** · 30-09-13, 10:45

When and where did Sarah Jane die please?

**beadsmore** · 30-09-13, 10:57

Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post

Are these are the links to 1891 and 1901 that you mean? -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=GLSRG12_1982_1984-0117&fn=Robert&ln=Averef&st=r&ssrc=&pid=24701690

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=12865598

Yes, thank you for doing that.

**Chrissie Smiff** · 30-09-13, 11:05

You're welcome

Did you see my next post asking when and where Sarah Jane died please?

**beadsmore** · 30-09-13, 11:11

Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post

When and where did Sarah Jane die please?

I have her death certificate.

Jane Avery 1/4/1910 in Bristol aged 44. Informant was the eldest son Robert Avery and it is dated 4/4/1910 which was the day her 'husband' John Smith Avery died. It was Sarah Jane's funeral that day and my grandfather (William Smith Avery) was sharing his dad's bed. He woke up to find his father had died in the night.

William went at first to a children's home, then onto an Aunt in Wales. He didn't know much about his family as he thought the Aunt he lived with was his mum's sister rather than his father's and he didn't know his mother was called Sarah J, but just Jane. He also never mentioned he had an older brother Robert. We knew about older sister Tilly and Mabel and brother Jack, but neither his nor Mabel's family knew of Robert.

Robert died in Bristol about 1912 when Mabel was about 13 - she stayed in Bristol, and William 9.

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