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  • Irish Research - Probably Fermanagh or Tyrone

    Don't you sometimes wish you hadn't got out of bed in the morning?

    I am trying to research my husband's family.
    His father, Francis Joseph Cassidy, was born in 1903 in Rathfriland, Co. Down, N. Ireland (Reg.Dist: Newry) - d 1949 Rathfriland, Co. Down - Occ: Draper

    Paternal Grandfather: James Cassidy - b1871 probably Fermanagh/Tyrone - d 1942 Newry, Co. Down - m - Ellen McGeough in 1903 (HIS father Francis was still alive in 1903 as he signed the marriage certificate)
    Significantly (I think), James Cassidy named his first two children Francis and Ann.
    James Cassidy supposedly told my Mother-in-Law that he came from Fivemiletown, which is Tyrone with a probable Registration District of Clogher - I can find nothing for him there and I have tried many and varied sites.
    I do know from one of the census (Irish) that James Cassidy was doing his Drapery apprenticeship in Clones, Co. Fermanagh and I found his soon to be wife on a census there also. She came (Ellen McGeough) from Forkhill, Co. Armagh but was working as a houseservant for a family in Clones. I have their marriage details from their marriage in Dundalk, Co. Lough in 1903.
    Since finding the birth of a James b 1871 I have now found a birth for a Patt Cassiday [sic] presumably Patrick - parents Francis Cassiday and Anne McQuaid - I strongly suspect "Notty" mentioned above must have been Anne - goodness knows how - perhaps I just want her to be. However, the address for birth registration is slightly different - dob 1.4.1865. Place: 0183, Irvinestown, Fermanagh.

    I really do not have a clue how to confirm this lot and I am sure there were more than 2 children. I think that Francis Cassidy the elder may have died in 1917 - saw something somewhere and forgot to write it down.

    I understand RC and C of I and other records may be held in different places so just in case, the above is an RC family.

    Any help, inspiring words or miracles will be gratefully received.

    Sue

    Batch nos. for FSOrg finds: Patt Cassiday C70125-7, James Cassidy C70144-2 and also for James Cassidy C01405-7.

    I have now found on FSOrg a birth for a James Cassidy b 1871 in Irvinestown No. 1, Ferm, Ire..[sic]. His parents are Francis Cassidy and ?"Notty" McQuaid. I have no idea what No.1 means in the birthplace.
    {not sure why the bit immediately above is sitting here - it must have jumped! - I have left it just in case!

  • #2
    I assume this is James in 1901:



    And in 1911:



    Both censuses show him to be born in Co Tyrone, so that fits with your information. I can confirm that the civil registration town for Fivemiletown would be Clogher.

    The only James Cassidy birth registered in Clogher in the period 1864 to 1874 was one in 1874 Volume 3, page 141. You might want to order it to see if the information on it fits with the other information you have. People weren’t all that accurate about their ages at that time and his birth (as recorded on censuses) could easily be out by a few years. You should have his father’s Francis’s occupation from the 1903 marriage cert. So the question would be whether that matches with the 1874 birth.

    Your other option would be to search the RC parish records for Fivemiletown to see if you can find a baptism that fits. The records start in 1856 and you can see where copies are held on this link:




    They are not on-line anywhere so far as I can tell. (Rootsireland doesn’t have that parish on it database). So a visit to NLI Dublin or PRONI in Belfast may be required.

    Irvinestown is a long way from Fivemiletown and I wouldn’t rush to connect events there unless you have specific evidence to show that’s where he came from. And it’s obviously in the wrong county. However though Irvinestown itself is in Co Fermanagh, part of its registration area is within Co Tyrone. So some births, deaths and marriages in part of Tyrone would show up under Irvinestown, Fermanagh in the civil indexes.

    What’s the father Francis’ occupation, and have you found him on either 1901 or 1911 censuses? And where was he born?

    Is this the abstract (summary) of James probate file? If so, the paper record should be in PRONI, Belfast:

    Full Abstract :
    Cassidy James of Rathfriland county Down merchant died 12 July 1942 Probate Belfast 20 May to Peter McGeough merchant. Effects £5919 9s. 3d. D.B.N. P. R. 04/08/1954
    Last edited by Elwyn; 17-09-13, 20:02.
    Elwyn

    I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Have you compared signatures for Francis 1903 to census return 1901....hoping he is head of household
      Last edited by Elaine; 17-09-13, 20:06.
      Elaine

      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Elwyn,

        Many thanks indeed for that - you threw me with one of the census because I knew the 1911 census was correct but the 1901 census you mentioned was weird because it said James was a servant and the one I had seen said he was a drapers assistant and sure enough, if I had opened it properly it would have said that. So the answer is "yes" they are both him but I had never noticed that Clones was in Monaghan but I do understand registration districts are often different from county boundaries (I have been there and it was in Fermanagh when I went there in the 60s!). My husband assures me that county lines are a tad blurred at times and it depends which direction people go in to Register things! I agree that I probably should stay with what my mother-in-law said but she also said he was a "horsetrader" from Fivemiletown - he doesn't seem to have been - perhaps Francis Cassidy was into horses! Whatever James was he appears to have been fairly successful at it going by the Probate you added.

        I actually have no idea what Francis Cassidy did for a living and so far haven't found him on either census but he must be on them somewhere - my husband always assumed he farmed. I don't know where he was born in Ireland - had assumed it would be where his son James came from although I realise this is not necessarily so. He is also pretty sure that he never left Ireland (perhaps for a visit but that would be all) not, for example going to USA or England to work. I am sure he must have had quite a few children but although I can find names I have no means of proving who they are. My husband tells me that historically ALL the Cassidy's originate from Fermanagh and were once physicians to the Kings of Leinster (I note the said Kings died out so the Cassidy's couldn't have been very good physicians although there have been a couple in the family since in James Cassidy's line since i.e. two of his children) I did think it was possible that I was unable to find Francis Cassidy for certain because he may have joined the military (I was thinking British military) but I am told none of them, except for one of James Cassidy's sons (he served during WW2 and didn't return) served in the military.

        I will get stuck into checking the link you have given me for births and also the 2 census for Francis Cassidy to see if I can find him.

        I really do appreciate your help - I had no idea where to look next. I will update this post with what I find (or what I don't find.)

        Sue

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for that Elaine - what a good idea (I certainly wouldn't have thought of it). Only one little problem - I haven't been able to find him on either census but hopefully will be able to confirm the signatures when/if I do.

          Sue

          Comment


          • #6
            Occupation of Father (from James Cassidy's Wedding Certificate) - have just found full version - Francis Cassidy was a Farmer

            Sue

            Comment


            • #7
              It is now almost 1am and I haven't managed to really find anything on census 1901/1911
              On the 1901: Tyrone/Glenchiel/Corramore/1752129 - doubtful possible
              Tyrone/Makenny/Drumharvey/nai 001204048 - ?? Farmer BUT cannot read or write (made his mark)

              Didn't find anything on 1911 - thought I would try again tomorrow/later today - also with baptisms.
              Wedding certificate is a copy and although a copy in handwriting, apart from the bride and groom am pretty sure it is all the same writing. The shortened original copy - a yellowed, tatty piece of paper which my husband produced along with a pile of old yellowed newspapers dating back to 1949!!! may yield more but I bet that it's written by someone else - bit academic at mo as I cannot find the wretched thing.

              Sue

              Comment


              • #8
                I was looking on familysearch and found a baptism for a Bridget Cassidy ref C012005 and the parents are Francis Cassidy and 'Naughty' McQuaid

                Comment


                • #9
                  "Naughty" - wonder what that was meant to be or perhaps I should be asking "what did she do".
                  Wonder if it is a mistranslation (previously it said Nottie) - perhaps it is a mistranslated gaelic name???

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sue,

                    Clones is definitely in Monaghan and hasn’t been moved from Fermanagh, at any time.

                    I am not sure that I would agree with your husband about registration being based on which direction people chose to go. It wasn’t that haphazard. Every townland had a specific registration office, and so unless you were untruthful about your address, you could only register a birth or a death at the office allocated for your townland. You can see which townlands go with each registration office using this link. The registration district is normally the same as the Poor Law Union:

                    http://www.thecore.com/seanruad/

                    If you enter Clogher in the PLU box and click on it, you’ll get a list of all the townlands within that registration area. It also shows you which of those townlands are in Monaghan, and which in Tyrone. Likewise Lowtherstown will show you which townlands in its catchment area are in Fermanagh and which in Tyrone. (If you are searching for Irvinestown on this database or in Familysearch, be aware that it used to be called Lowtherstown, and many records are indexed under that, rather than Irvinestown. The Irvine family bought the big house there some time in the 1800s and just changed the name of the town. As you do).

                    I searched for the death of Francis Cassidy in Clogher, 1903 to 1921 but none is listed. However there is a death in Jan – Mar 1917, registered in Irvinestown (Vol 2, page 128),

                    You say that James’ father was alive in 1903 because he was a witness to James marriage. How do you know it was his father? It could be a brother or cousin, could it not?

                    Regarding the marriage certificate, the shortened version will be the religious certificate written by the priest and given to the couple on the day. RC marriage certificates don’t contain as much information as the civil version. In addition to the certificate provided at the church, the couple also completed the conventional record used for civil purposes (which has addresses, fathers names and occupations etc) which was then sent to the local registrar in Dundalk. So it sounds to me as though what you have are both the religious and civil certificates.

                    For the 1901 census, the Corramore Francis Cassidys all seem to be single or agricultural labourers. So I don’t see them as strong contenders.

                    The Makenny Francis is a farmer. (It’s in Kilskeery parish and in Irvinestown’s registration district). Francis inherited the farm from what is likely to be his father, Patrick around 1901 (acc to the revaluation records). It’s also in Griffith’s primary valuation as being occupied by Patrick in 1860). The family were still there in 1911, but they completed the census in Irish, which makes searching for them that bit trickier (Francis is Proinnsias in Irish):

                    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Drumharvey/Makenny/869277/


                    The death registered in 1917 (which fits with what you have been told) could be for the above Francis.

                    The next step, if I were you, would probably be to order the 1917 death cert and the 1871 birth cert you have traced to see if it related to the Makenny family. If it does then obviously age and father’s name will fit with the information you have. It still doesn’t quite explain why James would have said he came from Fivemiletown, 20 miles away, especially if his father had spent all his life on the same farm in Makenny. (Ie it’’s not as though he moved about a bit in the course of his life).

                    I think I’d still be inclined to check the Clogher parish records to confirm that there wasn’t a James Cassidy born there c 1871, to a Francis Cassidy, as a part of your research.

                    You can order a photocopy of the birth & death certs from GRO Roscommon for €4 per certificate. Put the place, year, quarter (where there is one), volume & page number on the application form (anywhere). http://www.groireland.ie/ You have to post or fax the form to them but they will e-mail the copy certificate to you if you wish. Put “please e-mail to…..” clearly on the top of the form.
                    Last edited by Elwyn; 18-09-13, 10:56.
                    Elwyn

                    I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Elwyn, Thank you so much for that. I think you are correct about the two certs - one (the one I cannot find at the moment) says Armagh Cathedral - I think and I hope/am pretty sure I remember correctly that Francis Cassidy has been put on as father - I thought he had signed but he probably hadn't. However, the non-religious certificate states Father: Francis Cassidy - underneath it says "living". It gives his occupation as "Farmer" which has now, thinking about it, given me food for thought. [ I wonder how much attention should be paid to "occupations" - on the other side of my family Tree I have a G. Grandfather who married whilst serving in the RMLI - on his marriage certificate he said his father was an Engineer! His father has proved to be an agricultural labourer.]
                      I remember my husband telling me the Irish word for Francis was (pronounciation: Pranchise) and my own name Siobhan with a bullsher over the "bh" to make it a "v" - you see my gaelic is coming along nicely!

                      I think my husband made his comment about people registering events in whichever direction they felt like going because James Cassidy's wife (Ellen McGeough) came from Carriffe House, Forkhill, Armagh. Sometimes her family registered things in Dundalk and sometimes in Armagh - I have since found out, however, that part of their property was on the border i.e. a bit in Armargh and a bit in Louth but I would have assumed their house was designated in one place or the other although I am told it was the biggest farm in Armagh at the time and they owned it I believe (until they became tenants) .......all very confusing and I am sure some of their deaths were registered in Down (Newry) also which maybe closer possibly.

                      It is interesting that you think the Malkenny Cassidy's may fit - they were certainly the only ones who came close
                      I will send for the certificate for the Malkenny lot - I am going to have a word with my husband's older brother who is over in Ireland (he lives there) and see if I can get him to remember anything - being older he tends to have picked up more on what went on but, sadly, has little interest in family history - he has also been quite ill recently.
                      I will search RootsIreland further also for listings in Tyrone and try to find the ones in Malkenny also before getting cert.
                      It crosses my mind that James Cassidy told my mother-in-law that he "came from Fivemiletown" because perhaps he had been working there just before marrying but it does worry me a bit that I can't prove the connection between James Cassidy and Francis Cassidy - both also being common names.

                      Sue

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have just found something that may be relevant (or may not be of course) BUT how do I prove this?
                        Quite by accident from Anc.co I was diverted to Proni Will Calendar - on ancestry I was looking up Francis Cassidy,s profile and the access appeared on his thread of the Tree. 2 entries:

                        Date of Death 27.9.1912
                        Cassidy Francis - date of Grant 9.5.1913
                        Registry: Armagh Effects £278 5s 0d
                        FULL ABSTRACT
                        Probate of the Will of Francis Cassidy late of Drumgormley, Co. Fermanagh, Farmer, who died 27 September 1912 granted at Armagh to Michael Cassidy, Farmer.

                        No. 2 Date of Death 10 July 1917
                        Surname: Cassidy
                        Forename: Francis Date of Grant: 3 November 1917
                        Registry: Armagh Effects: Effects £40
                        Full Abstract
                        Administration of the Estate of Francis Cassidy late of Annaglough County Monoghan Farmer who died 10 July 1917 granted at Armagh to Rose A. Cassidy the Widow.

                        The second one is the more interesting - not entirely sure where Annaglough is yet within Monaghan i.e. close to border with Fermanagh .......? I suppose it is quite possible that Francis Cassidy had moved to Armagh but people tended not to retire in those days. His wife may have connections in Armagh or perhaps another relative dealt with the Probate in Armagh......not entirely sure yet what to do with this info. It is quite possible of course that Francis didn't die in Fermanagh but in Armagh.

                        Sue

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Have you seen this on, not used Irish records so having a bash



                          there is a signature for a Francis Cassidy widow

                          Drumgormly (Old Barr, Fermanagh)
                          Cassidy Francis 76 Head of Family
                          Cassidy Patrick 74 Brother
                          Cassidy Patrick 27 Son
                          Cassidy Michael 22 Son
                          Cassidy Maurice 19 Son
                          Cassidy Katherine E 17 Daughter
                          There's a signature for Patrick Cassidy too
                          Elaine

                          Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                          http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                          http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sue,

                            For the two probate files you have found, only the abstract (summary) is on-line. Both files should however be in PRONI so you could get copies of them. In the case of the 1912 death, there is a will but for the 1917 one he died intestate and so no will. There should however be the standard form detailing his estate, and next of kin. If you can’t get to PRONI yourself, they will provide copies for you (for a fee). You would need to e-mail them for the details.


                            Neither of these two farmers lived or died in Armagh. Armagh is mentioned because that’s where the probate court was situated for that general area (ie Fermanagh, Tyone, Monaghan etc).



                            This looks be the Francis from Annaglough:





                            Notice that there’s another James in the family, and that everyone was born in Monaghan. So it can’t really be your James’s family. He was unlikely to be in 2 different places on census night, and the county of birth doesn’t tie in either.

                            The problem with the Drumgormley family is also that they are all born in Fermanagh. Francis Cassidy is listed farming there in 1862 in Griffiths. So he’s lived his whole live there. Not 20 miles away in Tyrone. A birth in Drumgormley would be registered in Enniskillen. There are James Cassidy births registered in Enniskillen in 1870, 1872, 1873, & 1874. You could check them out or look at the parish records for a baptism.




                            I agree with you that farmers didn’t move about much. They had 20 or 30 year leases, and only rarely sold up because in general that meant starting all over again. They only sold up if they were emigrating. They didn’t retire and they generally died at home, or close to home.
                            Last edited by Elwyn; 19-09-13, 08:11.
                            Elwyn

                            I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Elwyn,

                              Many thanks for that - Griffiths is particularly interesting (have already today found someone from "other side" of family on there but, because I knew their address I could identify them. That is the problems with the Cassidys of course - James said he came from Fivemiletown and certainly wrote Tyrone down as place of birth so knowing his father was a Farmer he should be in Tyrone somewhere because, as you say, Farmers tend not to move.

                              Whilst scrolling through the names of places on Griffiths I suddenly remembered something ..............about 20 years ago, whilst staying in Rostrevor, my husband and I went to Fivemiletown - he wanted to find some Cassidy graves and said they would be buried around there - he called at the Parochial House of ?The Sacred Heart Church in Fivemiletown and was directed to an old, somewhat derelict graveyard - it had, I think, hedging (uncut) for a fence - the gravestones were so old it was impossible to read any of them so mission unaccomplished but we can't remember what the area was called - husband thinks it begins with "Mag........". It was in a westerly direction from the Church (so I am told) i.e. if you stood with your back to the Church you went to the left (and here our memories differ) .............after continuing for a while you make a right turn and it was "somewhere there"................does that ring any bells?
                              Apart from the fact, probably because it was an unsuccessful visit, we don't remember too much about it, I am assuming he had the correct graveyard and he probably did if they were buried in or around Fivemiletown.
                              As you can tell I have put Irvinestown on hold for the moment although it remains a strong possibility.
                              I know some of the RC records have been held by Priests i.e. have not made it to the Archives - wonder whether it would be worth my while writing to the P-in-C in Fivemiletown and asking for information (for a charge I realise).

                              Sue

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Sue,

                                Your latest information does tend to suggest to me that you should be focusing on the Fivemiletown area. I can’t help you directly with the graveyard because I don’t know that area well enough. You could try contacting the local library, as they will probably be able to tell you the names and locations of local graveyards.



                                http://www.ni-libraries.net/libraries/fivemiletown-library/

                                For church records, you can try writing to the parish priest. They don’t always reply. Many get rather more genealogical requests than they have time for. Though some denominations now charge for accessing their records, the RC church doesn't normally charge, though a donation to parish funds is always welcomed, and may increase your chances of getting a reply. The less information you ask for the more likely they are to reply too. If you only ask for James Cassidy’s baptism c 1871, then that’s not too difficult to search for and respond to, but people do ask for “all Cassidy baptisms and marriages since the records begin”, and that sort of enquiry sometimes tends to get put on the back burner. (My local pp once said that his priority lay with his living parishioners rather than the dead ones. You can see his point).


                                The RC records for this and most other RC parishes were copied in the 1980s. At that time the bishops imposed a 100 year moratorium, presumably for privacy reasons, so the copies of most RC parish records in public repositories such as the National Library and PRONI tend to stop around 1881. For later records you do need to contact the parish priest. He usually has the only copy.

                                This is what PRONI have for Fivemiletown. There would appear to be two chapels in the area. I assume Augintaine is the one for Fivemiletown itself but you may need to check that. There are probably no earlier records for either of these churches. That’s not unusual with RC records.

                                R.C. Aughintaine [sic Aghintain] (Fivemiletown) (Clogher diocese)
                                Baptisms, 1870-81; marriages, 1870-83.

                                R.C. Clogher (Clogher diocese) Baptisms, 1856-81; marriages, 1825-35 and 1840-81.


                                As far as civil records are concerned, I know you have searched for James’ birth. There’s only the one registered in Clogher in 1874. Statutory birth registration started in 1864 and in the early years not every birth was registered. In fact I don’t think it was compulsory till 1871 anyway. So one explanation may be that it simply wasn’t registered. All the more reason to search church records.
                                Last edited by Elwyn; 19-09-13, 12:14.
                                Elwyn

                                I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Elwyn

                                  I think I might have struck gold!! Having struck I have no idea what to do with it.
                                  On Griffiths by putting surname in only I have found literally dozens of Cassidys. Obviously I wasn't getting the most out of the site the way I was previously using it.
                                  I have found SEVEN Francis Cassidys as in Tyrone - interestingly none were in Irvinestown. They are all Tenant Farmers. This, of course, is overlooking the fact that Francis may actually not have been a Tenant but a farm labourer.
                                  There are hundreds more Cassidys (a lot anyway) but have not copied them - none of the others are Francis.
                                  All are in Tyrone and I list the two that seem possibly relevant below.

                                  1. Barony: Clogher. Union: Omagh. Parish: Doncavey. Townland: Tonnagh Beg
                                  2. " : " " " " " " Castletown

                                  The others are in 1. Cluntoe, Arboe, Cookstown. 2. Drumragh, Culmore. 3. Dromore, Galbally. 3. Ballinderry, Lanaglug.

                                  It is sad none are actually in Fivemiletown [perhaps as I think I mentioned before, maybe James Cassidy came from Fivemiletown because that is where he had been working after serving his apprenticeship. He was certainly an established draper and bought his own house and shop in Rathfriland shortly after marriage and arrival there BUT it was in 1901 and 1911 that he said he was from Fivemiletown so perhaps my explanation is not a good one]

                                  Having got really excited about acquiring these Cassidys it strikes me that the Griffith List was compiled in the 1860s. I imagine Francis Cassidy was old enough to be a Tenant but possibly his father was also around.

                                  Quite a few of the people listed as Tenants are women. There is a Catherine Cassidy as Tenant in Omagh, Donacavey, Castletown, Castle Street. One Francis Cassidy is also in Donacavey but in the townland of Tonnagh Beg.

                                  As I say, having got this information I now don't quite know what to do with it. Am going to look at Wills again!!!

                                  Sue

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Sue,

                                    Yes. There are various Francis Cassidys in the county. It would be unusual for a farm labourer to be listed in Griffiths. However nearly all farmers would be. I think you have to hope that your ancestor didn’t promote his father from labourer to farmer, on the marriage certificate. That may have happened from time to time.

                                    None in the parish of Clogher (ie Fivemiletown) though. You can follow through from the initial valuation and see what became of each of those various Francis, by using the revaluation records. See:

                                    PRONI is the official archive for Northern Ireland and holds documents covering a period from 1600 to the present day


                                    They are a bit fiddly to use but you should get the idea with a bit of practice. They go through to 1930. You can use them to tell when the various Francis died, and so perhaps eliminate them. But you would need to check if they lived anywhere remotely near Fivemiletown. Some certainly didn’t.

                                    When James said he came from Fivemiletown, I am sure that he meant that as the nearest post town rather then exactly where he stayed. After all it’s a town and so a farmer is unlikely to live within the town itself. I’d be focusing on townlands in that general area. If not in the parish of Clogher itself then in the surrounding parishes which (for Griffiths purposes) are: Aghalurcher, Donacavey, Clougherny, Errigal Keerogue & Errigal Trough. The RC church uses different boundaries and in some cases different parish names. All designed to make the research a bit more challenging. See this link for RC parish details:



                                    But if you are using Griffiths, it’s the civil parishes you will need to rely on.

                                    Given the links you have mentioned to Fivemiletown, both anecdotally and from visiting the graveyards there, I would focus on checking those parish records first, either by writing to the pp or by going to view the copies in PRONI in Belfast or the National Library in Dublin.

                                    Where a woman is listed as a tenant in Griffiths, it usually means she was a widow, or occasionally it indicated a farm where all the occupants were unmarried women. (Farmer died and only had daughters). Unfortunately women in Ireland in the 1800s were second class citizens at times but this is probably not the forum to explore that issue.


                                    Elwyn
                                    Elwyn

                                    I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Elwyn,

                                      I didn't realise the evaluation could be followed up. I will get on to that tomorrow.

                                      However, clearly my brain works better late at night! because I have just remembered the newspaper cuttings which I only read earlier this year - had no idea my husband had them. Most of them relate to the death of his father in 1949 and I have a feeling that I wondered who one of the people who attended the funeral (or sent a Mass card) was because she wasn't local to Rathfriland - can't remember where she came from but I bet she was a Cassidy or a married Cassidy. I am sure I thought at the time of reading it that it must be a relative of his - timescale doesn't seem to be right because she would be a very elderly relative if she was a sibling of James Cassidy - perhaps a neice - will have to get husband to get them out again tomorrow and see where he/she came from - if it was a woman she may not live where she was born of course and if married will not be a Cassidy but, who knows, it may help!

                                      Sue

                                      Sue

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Elwyn,

                                        I may have found something better than a relative (who may or may not be) who attended a funeral. Going through the newspaper cuttings which my mother-in-law kept over the years has been incredibly interesting and not seen by me before but the most interesting thing, I copy below (don't know how to upload!)
                                        WILL WAS EATEN BY MICE
                                        The remains of a will which had been partly eaten by mice was produced in the Ulster High Court today before the Lord Chief Justice when Francis John Cassidy (70) Drumbinnion, Dromore, Co. Tyrone, asked for a grant of administration of the estate of his father, Francis Cassidy, who died on February 11, 1917, or in the alternative for letters of administration intestate.
                                        Mr. Hugh McDevitt (instructed by Mr. F.J. Thornton) for applicant said the deceased had left his two farms to his sons, Andrew and Michael. Andrew died in September, 1947 and Michael in December 1954, each without having made a will.
                                        After the death of the two brothers, the present applicant found the will of his father, and the document had been badly eaten by mice. The top lines of the will still legible were:

                                        VE O
                                        UTA: DES T.H.
                                        HER CHATTELS
                                        chael Cassidy
                                        my brother Pat
                                        Now in my possession
                                        Counsel said the remains of the will looked curiously like a growing tree
                                        The Lord Chief Justice granted an order for administration of the estate s an intestacy.


                                        So, it would appear that there are two Francis Cassidys - father and son BUT NO MENTION OF A JAMES CASSIDY also a son - wonder if he was estranged from the family also appear to be no daughters.
                                        There was also a son called Andrew - d September 1947 and
                                        Michael d December 1954 both intestate

                                        In short: The son making the application was 70 at the time referring to his father just as Francis Cassidy. He, the son is referred to as Francis John Cassidy.
                                        Unfortunately there is no clue as to which Newspaper this cutting came from nor is any date included in the cutting. Since it was kept by my mother-in-law who lived only in Newry, Rathfriland and after 1949 Warrenpoint, I would guess it came from something like the Irish Times as it doesn't concern any of the above named towns nor indeed the county of Down. The date of the newspaper will be after 1954 i.e. the date the second son, Michael, died.

                                        The obituary of Francis Joseph Cassidy d 9 July 1949: I re-read this and there are NO Cassidys whatsoever on it as wreath senders, mass card senders or mourners. I carefully read where all the last mentioned came from and there is no one from the relevant area or its surrounds mentioned. It really does sound as though James Cassidy had no contact with his family although his father did come to his wedding - OR DID HE - not his signature on marriage certificate I feel sure - he is just written in as "Francis Cassidy - father" although it also said he was living so James knew he was alive........or did he just say that because he thought he probably was?
                                        The Newspaper with the death of Francis Joseph Cassidy (James' son) was the Rathriland, Mourne and District OUTLOOK dated 23 July 1949 [vol. 11, No. 307]
                                        There are also a lot of very old photos and all have identifying writing on the back. Not one Cassidy among them except for James.
                                        Apart from the amusing (I thought) article on Francis Cassidy's Will, on re-reading this I probably haven't found very much at all. There is more to go through but suspect they won't relate to Cassidys at all.
                                        I had thought the answer would be to apply for the birth certificate of Francis John Cassidy who applied to the court with the "mice munched" Will BUT I will only get "father: Francis Cassidy" from it.

                                        Sue
                                        Last edited by Sue1; 20-09-13, 11:52. Reason: Addition

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