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  • 1939 UK Register

    Hi

    Am I right in thinking that if the HSCIC release information about a person on the September 1939 register, then the GRO has provided proof that that person is deceased? Does the HSCIC release info about people on the register who are still living? Or is info released about all people residing at a certain address, irrespective of whether one is still alive? This is from the HSCIC site:

    "2. Data will be provided, as recorded on the 29 September 1939, only where the individual is now recorded as deceased. Where an individual is not recorded as being deceased, the information will not be disclosed unless the applicant can produce clear evidence which establishes that a death has taken place.
    3. The date of the death notification (if recorded before the commencement of the NHS on 5 July 1948) will only be provided if specifically requested." So does this mean when I apply for a record from the register, I can also ask for a date of death if that person has died since 1948 but I'm not sure of the exact date?

    Sorry for all the questions, but I'm rather baffled and many thanks.
    Last edited by Felix; 12-09-13, 05:44.

  • #2
    It is the duty of the HSCIC to provide all information on the 1939 National Register if the subject is deceased. Under law no proof of death is required to be given to the HSCIC.

    However in some cases they may insist on proof of death and if known I would advise it be given. It all depends on how dogged you are determined to be to get the information.

    The HSCIC also has to issue all information about living people at the address as long as it is not personal information, as described under the Data Protection Act 1998.

    You cannot ask for the information on a death after 1948 under a 1939 FoI request as the 1939 National Registration occurred before 1948.
    You could however ask for the date of death (if they have it recorded) under a more general FoI request.
    Cheers
    Guy
    Last edited by Guy; 12-09-13, 07:15. Reason: spelling
    Guy passed away October 2022

    Comment


    • #3
      I didn't have a clue what the 'HSCIC' was, so for the benefit of others it is "Health & Social Care Information Centre"

      Comment


      • #4
        Cheers Guy. That is exactly what I wanted to know and thanks again.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sorry, I should have explained myself better

          Comment


          • #6
            I keep reading this thread and cant understand what this register is all about and why it will benefit anyone to request information from it.

            What is it a register of and is it like a census? Is it all over the Country? Do you have to have an address to request this information?
            Can someone enlighten me further please.

            Edna

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Edna

              The 1939 register was like a census in a way. It was all over the country and gave the whereabouts of everyone on the night on Friday 29th Sept 1939, their date of birth and marital status, address and occupation. Except for some residents who had already been called up for military service. Since the 1931 census has been completely lost it's the best anyone can do around that period for something similar I think. You don't need an address to request the information.

              You do have to pay for it and it's not that cheap, but it's been invaluable for what I need. I would have been lost so far without it.

              Here's the link to a much better explanation than I can give though:

              Comment


              • #8
                I thought the 1939 register was compiled in order to issue identity cards and ration books!

                OC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes, that too of course.

                  Knowing where people were on that date is useful though when you can't get access to WW2 military records in the UK unless you're the next of kin.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                    I thought the 1939 register was compiled in order to issue identity cards and ration books!

                    OC
                    Looks like it was for several purposes but you're right it was used for issuing identity cards and ration books but was needed verall for planning etc.

                    Margaret

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      One can read about the 1939 National Registration at
                      http://preview.tinyurl.com/oy7zrbx

                      The 1939 National Register (NR) was used for a number of purposes including Identity Cards, Ration Cards, population and planning statistics, it was even to be used to help families be re-united after the war.
                      Census Population History Registration Registrar-General


                      In addition the NR was used as an electoral Register in 1944 and as Electoral Registers are supposed to be freely accessible I believe it is unlawful to demand a payment for access.

                      Cheers
                      Guy
                      Guy passed away October 2022

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Guy View Post
                        One can read about the 1939 National Registration at
                        http://preview.tinyurl.com/oy7zrbx

                        The 1939 National Register (NR) was used for a number of purposes including Identity Cards, Ration Cards, population and planning statistics, it was even to be used to help families be re-united after the war.
                        Census Population History Registration Registrar-General


                        In addition the NR was used as an electoral Register in 1944 and as Electoral Registers are supposed to be freely accessible I believe it is unlawful to demand a payment for access.

                        Cheers
                        Guy
                        So what can be done about this unlawfulness - can the public get some action to release the information?

                        Margaret

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, if people are willing to spend the time and money (as I did with the 1911 census and the 1939 National Registration) in fighting for a cause the government departments are forced to change their policies.
                          However do not think it is cheap in time or money I spent over two years preparing my case for the release of the 1911 census.
                          Access to all census taken under the 1920 Census Act could be granted if enough people got involved but unfortunately many say the would like it to happen but few bother to spend the time to ensure it does.
                          We are now in the position where some people think there is a block on BMD less than 50 years old, unless this is opposed the unlawful restrictions will become almost impossible to overturn and family history will suffer.

                          The situation of the 1939 National Registration is down in part to Mr. Ian MacLeod lying to Parliament about whether the 1939 National Registration was used by the National Health Service in 1953 or not.
                          Similar lies were told to Parliament about the rule on census release before then voted on a 100 year block.
                          Such deceits influence how politicians vote on such subjects and should be made illegal with stiff penalties.
                          Cheers
                          Guy
                          Guy passed away October 2022

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I would make the point that nothing is ever free.

                            If the information contained on the NR (or on any other database for that matter) were to be issued free of charge to anyone and everyone, then the taxpayer would foot the bill for that and we then return to the old argument about whether our HOBBY should be funded by the taxpayer.

                            OC
                            Last edited by Olde Crone Holden; 14-09-13, 09:14.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                              I would make the point that nothing is ever free.

                              If the information contained on the NR (or on any other database for that matter) were to be issued free of charge to anyone and everyone, then the taxpayer would foot the bill for that and we then return to the old argument about whether our HOBBY should be funded by the taxpayer.

                              OC
                              Yes and I don't want the taxpayer to fund my hobby.

                              I would expect ancestry etc to want to buy the database and make it available and in that scenario the government would get a lump sum and if they were clever enough a 'royalty' for every record sold.

                              Margaret

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Margaret

                                That would be a very neat solution, but possibly with some restrictions in force - many people on that list will still be alive and their feelings (in general) ought to be consulted.

                                OC

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                  Margaret

                                  That would be a very neat solution, but possibly with some restrictions in force - many people on that list will still be alive and their feelings (in general) ought to be consulted.

                                  OC
                                  Well, yes of course something to stop us having access to potentially living people would not be too hard to devise - an age at 1939 that would be sure to be dead by now but rolling on each year would probably do it.

                                  Margaret

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Really interesting I never knew it existed

                                    Edna

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Obviously the taxpayer would fund the records being archived but that is the case whether they are available or not.
                                      Electoral registers are available for all to search, there is no charge made for that.
                                      The argument is not whether the taxpayer funds or subsidises our hobby but whether taxpayer funded archives should be available to public inspection.

                                      To my way of thinking there is no point in keeping a historic archive if it cannot be accessed.
                                      Cheers
                                      Guy
                                      Guy passed away October 2022

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I do not understand the modern idea of hiding details of living people.
                                        People throw in the term privacy but then claim public details are private.

                                        Take the 1939 National Registration the data reveals-

                                        Residence
                                        Name
                                        Sex
                                        Date of birth
                                        Marital status
                                        Occupation
                                        If member of armed forces or reserves

                                        Out of those seven questions six would have been common knowledge to the local community, the seventh date of birth would have been roughly known.

                                        The date of birth being public information could easily have been found out easily in 1939 by visiting the Superintendent Registrar’s office and browsing the civil registers. These were open to public access until 1975/6.
                                        If there was any doubt about marital status that could have been checked in the marriage register.

                                        Openness does not cause harm, secrets cause harm.
                                        Cheers
                                        Guy
                                        Guy passed away October 2022

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