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Help please, can anyone find this bloke?

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  • Help please, can anyone find this bloke?

    Going back over 8 year old stuff as Ive recently received some photos of my Great Aunt (or Grand aunt) for the first time ever. However, now I am looking at the records I added back then, it doesnt make sense. Can anyone help here please.

    Emily Ann Elizabeth Horstead was born in Rotherhithe, London in 1868 daughter of my GGP Edward Horstead and Emily Steers.

    Now, I found Emily Horstead (mistransed as Emily Horstus) in Thetford, Norfolk in the working as a cook for a farmer

    She marries a Frederick John Elinor - who I had presumed (!) was the Fred Elinor living in East Harling which is a stones throw from Thetford in Norfolk. HOWEVER

    In AUGUST :( 1891 they marry in St George in the East - both give the same Wapping address. Frederick John Elinor gives age as 27 and occupation as shoemaker and father as John, deceased.

    There is a bunch of baptisms in the Rotherhithe area for their children, all of whom, except one seems to die in infancy. Oddly, the same girl is baptised twice as Ellen Beatrice Elinor and then again in 1904 as just Beatrice Elinor. In 1901 Emily is working as a barmaid in a Rotherhithe pub and claiming she is a widow.

    I cannot find a death for Fred Elinor but I did find a Fred Elinor living in suffolk about right age with a son, Fred junior born in Dorking, Surrey. Now, wrongly of me, I assumed this was the errant husband as I could find no other records to match. Remember this was when I first started, so forgive me.

    Emily Elinor goes on to marry an Alexander Davies Cooper in 1916 but has children by him from 1911.

    I would be grateful for any help tracking down Frederick John Elinor please as I cant even find a suitable 1864 birth for him.

  • #2
    Potential is Frederick ELLENOR Guiltcross Q2 1861

    Comment


    • #3
      If so, then:

      NameFrederic Elener
      GenderMale
      Christening Date18 Jul 1861
      Christening PlaceEast Harling, Norfolk, England
      Father's NameEdward Elener
      Mother's NameEliza Osborne
      Indexing Project (Batch) NumberI03901-8
      System OriginEngland-EASy
      GS Film number1596037
      Reference ID107

      Comment


      • #4
        No - ignore that as: NameFredeeric Elener
        GenderMale
        Burial Date18 Aug 1861
        Burial PlaceEast Harling, Norfolk, England
        Death Date
        Death Place
        Age0
        Birth Date1861
        Birthplace
        Occupation
        Race
        Marital Status
        Spouse's Name
        Father's NameEdward Elener
        Father's Birthplace
        Mother's NameEliza Osborne Elener
        Mother's Birthplace
        Indexing Project (Batch) NumberB02803-7
        System OriginEngland-EASy
        GS Film number1526688
        Reference IDit 1 p 23 n 180

        Comment


        • #5
          However, it appears they have another son:

          Fredrick Elenor
          1871 census
          Age 6
          born - East Harling, Norfolk

          Registration District - Guiltcross
          Sub-District - Kenninghall
          Parish - East Harling
          County -Norfolk

          father:Edward Elenor
          mother:Eliza Elenor
          other:Silvans Elenor
          Last edited by Elaine ..Spain; 30-08-13, 16:23. Reason: post edited - to avoid copyright issues

          Comment


          • #6
            Assuming some age discrepancy this could be him in 1911:

            Fredrick Ellinor
            1911 census
            Age 40
            born - Does Not Know Town, Norfolk

            Registration District -Burnley
            Sub-District - Colne
            County - Lancashire

            He is a Tannery Labourer and Single; and also there is Louisa THOMAS, Boarder (???), married, age 36 born Sheffield
            Last edited by Elaine ..Spain; 30-08-13, 16:22. Reason: post edited - to avoid copyright issues

            Comment


            • #7
              Bertie, not sure where you are finding the information, but can you be careful with copying and pasting from other websites as it may contravene copyright.
              Much better (safer) to edit the information/transcribe it - rather than C & P.
              Thanks
              Elaine







              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks guys but Frederick gives his father as John, not Edward.

                Id assumed Norfolk birth place but I may be totally wrong as I have no confirmation. The East Harling chap was the one Id assumed as it was so near where Emily was working but that may be a red herring.
                Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 30-08-13, 17:04.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here's the marriage http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...c=&pid=5347051

                  Margaret

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wondered about this one

                    1881
                    Fred J Elnor head Single 20 Boot and shoemaker born Rockland Norfolk with Susanna Moore House keeper widow 54
                    4, Rudds Yard, Norwich St Mary At Coslany
                    RG11 piece 1937 folio 21 page 3

                    the other Frederick is still with Edward and Eliza 1881 in East Harling
                    1871 can only see the East Harling Frederick so far

                    There are 2 birth registrations 1861 different surname spellings, but can't seem to find anything but the poss 1881
                    Last edited by Elaine; 30-08-13, 21:22.
                    Elaine

                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks people, but, as I found, there seems to be no real evidence of this man :( His age on their marriage cert points to an1863/64 birth.

                      Im really not sure about the Norfolk connection now as nothing seems to fit.
                      Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 30-08-13, 21:29.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I wouldn't necessarily dismiss the one Elaine found although the age is slightly out, he is the right occupation for the m.cert although its difficult to find a definite link,

                        In 1861 there is this (the link from the results page on Ancestry goes to the wrong image but this is the actual image)



                        John and Ellen Barham with various children including Caroline Elnor age 20, unmarried and Frederick Elnor aged 2 months, said to be son but I reckon he's Caroline's son

                        In 1863 Caroline Rivett Ellinor marries Robert Knights (that surname is relevant later)

                        1871

                        Begin your discovery today by exploring the world's largest online family history resource!


                        Fred Knights (10) is the son of Robert and Caroline Knights

                        1881 - the one that Elaine found

                        1891



                        Fred J Elinor Knights boot and shoe maker living with Robert and Caroline Knights

                        1901



                        The Fredk Elinor you found with son and housekeeper, Jane

                        1911



                        Frederick John Knights boot and shoe maker with housekeeper Jane Rands, who I think is the same Jane as on the 1901. He's signed the form so its worth comparing the signature with the m cert

                        I'm pretty sure this is the same Fred throughout, the only problem is proving its your one
                        Jackie

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I note that the last child born to Emily Ann and Fdk John that I can find is Emily Nellie in 1900. Can't see her after that or a death. In 1901 whilst Emily Ann, mother, is working for the Osborn family, Beatrice Elinor/Ellen Jane Beatrice is with the maternal grandparents.

                          In the 1911 census Emily Ann and Alfred (?Alexander) are living with their children the eldest being Ellen May aged 7 so together from 1904.

                          The Frederick John in the 1901 census b East Harling with Jane and child Frederick John b 1893 in Dorking is also a Shoemaker as on his mc with Emily Ann. I suppose he could have had an affair during the marriage and subsequently left.

                          Vera

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks everyone for your help. Yes, Alex was known as Alfred Thanks for the 1911.

                            I think Ive sent off everyone on a red herring with the guy in Norfolk who I had assumed was the right bloke.

                            Beatrice seems to have been baptised twice, (second time 1904 I think, with slightly altered names) gawd knows why. I had also assumed that Fred born 1893 in Surrey woud fit in nicely with Fred senior and Emily being down south. I dont know now. It may be Fred junr is the son of the "housekeeper" so getting his birth cert wouldnt help.
                            Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 06-09-13, 11:24.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              RIGHT guys, Im now sure that I had the right chap Fred Elinor in the 1901 with son Fred born 1893 Dorking and "housekeeper" Jane. Id assumed it was him 8 years back but I was thrown by my Great Aunt Emily (Elinor nee Horstead) calling herself a widow in London in 1901. Then the person who contacted me a couple of weeks back said Fred senior had died around 1900 so I was totally thrown and thought I must have got the wrong chap.

                              HOWEVER, yesterday, whilst checking out online baptisms that werent around when I did it previously - blow me, I was trying to sort out one of the daughters of Fred and Emily as they seem to have baptised her twice with slightly different names? Anyways, looking at the image and trying to find her I found Frederick John Edward Elinor, son of Fred John and Emily born Sept 1893 but baptised 1895! He isnt indexed by ancestry, so it was only by chance I saw him because of the daughter being baptised on the next page!

                              So, now I am sure this is the boy living with dad and the housekeeper in Suffolk in 1901. So I shall now study all your very kind contributions confident in my original assumption that Fred is the Norfolk boy. Blow me, they were a complicated couple.

                              Very grateful to everyone for assistance. Night owl - that is particularly brilliant work - shall have a good look at that. I see in the 1911 he says no living children but may be he is referring to his relationship with Jane? And I wonder why he suddenly adds the surname of Knights.

                              Many, many thanks everyone for your help in sorting this one. xxx


                              NB night owl - you are right!! I just compared Freds signature on the 1911 census with his signature at marriage and its the same - apart from the surname! - he has this odd thing of putting a full stop after his christian names and he does it both times Yoo hoo. xxxxx
                              Last edited by Heather Positive Thinker; 06-09-13, 11:32.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Pleased it all finally came together for you Heather PT. They sound as complicated as my lot ;)
                                Jackie

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Thrilled that you've sorted it out. My lot are just as complex too. :o

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Really pleased it's all come together;D
                                    Elaine

                                    Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                    http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                    http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                    Comment

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