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Are these the same family?

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  • Are these the same family?

    Hi

    Sorry, I need a bit of reassurance. Having done a blanket search of the 1841 census for Thomas Pye farmer, I have this one.

    Begin your discovery today by exploring the world's largest online family history resource!


    Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 491; Book: 3; Civil Parish: St Margaret; County: Kent; Enumeration District: 8; Folio: 23; Page: 2; Line: 5; GSU roll: 306883.

    But in 1851 he appears to have become John.


    http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...&indiv=1Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1610; Folio: 145; Page: 15; GSU roll: 193510.

    Please can someone reassure me I haven't completely lost the plot and also what the occupation is... it's the second word I am not sure of.

    Many thanks
    Bubblebelle x

    FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

  • #2
    Thet certainly look like the same family - you wouldn't get too many Friends! On the second image I think it says Farmer 180 acres.
    Linda


    My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

    Comment


    • #3
      1851 occupation: Farmer 190 acres 12 men
      Must be the same family with young Friend -Love the way Linda puts it. Either John/Thomas had his name mistranscribed on one of the censuses, or just possibly, as 1841 doesn't show relationships, John was away from home in 1841 and brother/cousin Thomas was looking after the farm.
      Last edited by JudithM; 14-08-13, 18:53.
      Judith passed away in October 2018

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you both. Yes I have been checking 'Friend'

        I have another pearl to pass you by too, if you don't mind.

        On my ancestors marriage cert, he names his father as Thomas Pye, farmer. A witness is Jane Pye. I cannot find my ancestor in the 1841 census, but with that info, plus my ancestor married into a Kent family too, and there is only one other Thomas Pye, farmer to research could I be on the right track here.... at last?
        Bubblebelle x

        FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Mandy,

          it has just occurred to me that when you say Tom & John they do sound very much the same, perhaps the enumerator misheard the name and put John instead?

          I do agree with you though, that they do indeed look to be the same family.
          Julie
          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

          .......I find dead people

          Comment


          • #6
            who is your ancestor Mandy? maybe we can help to track him down..
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


            • #7
              On the 1851 John?/Tom Pye is born in Bredgar

              There is a marriage in Bredgar of a Thomas Pye to a Jane Hudson 2/2/1785 by licence.

              They have a Thomas Pye christened 9/1/1787 and a John christened 5/2/1790.

              They also have 2 sets of twins!! Elizabeth and Mary 28/1/1795 and Richard and Jane 12/7/1792.

              There is also William 1/3/1788

              Comment


              • #8
                Found 2 more children

                James born 11/9/1799, christened 14/1/1800
                George christened 9/4/1802

                Unfortunately there are no images for the christenings just transcripts

                There is a Jane Pye, Farmer age 80 in Bredgar in the 1841 census Piece 471, Folio 12/6 Page 6
                Last edited by Frazzled; 15-08-13, 10:04.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks again both. Hadn't thought of Tom and John. I have a feeling then it is more likely to be John as there is a John Pye marrying Harriet Pargeter in 1815.

                  Frazzled thank you... I will look into that Thomas, although I think I may have already found him, but will double check

                  Thank you Julie

                  It is a bit of a needle in a haystack search again.... mine always are.

                  My 2x G Grandfather was George PYE and there was I thinking I was a PERRY

                  In 1842 he married Margery Rosella Randolph in Islington



                  As you can see his father is Thomas Pye, farmer and there is a witness Jane Pye.

                  George again appears in a newspaper article in 1843, he did a post mortem on a body in the river the address for George was 335 High St Wapping. I have not been able to find him in 1841 census, either by name or the address.

                  By 1848 George and Rosella (Margery) were in Chile, their 3 children appear on family search baptisms, Rosa 1848, George Arthur 1851 and Beatrice 1854. Then in 1861, Margery Rosella are back in UK, she cites herself a widow.




                  Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 363; Folio: 66; Page: 6; GSU roll: 542623.

                  Now I don't know if she is actually a widow or whether it was a widowhood of convenience as there is a documented story of both Georges being in Ballarat gold diggings, but other than this there is no proof.

                  So I thought to myself .... find Thomas, this Kent family looked promising but if he is John I need to check out the other farmer in Upholland Lancs.

                  What I have found is a probate record for John Pye possible father with 2 codicils, I wonder if it would be worth sending for this. On family search I have found some of the children on the census baptisms but not all and I haven't found a George that would fit.

                  Any help thoughts or ideas would be gratefully received.

                  I am off to Sainsburys now, so I won't be able to respond immediately.

                  PS I am okay with the Randolphs of this era.

                  Many thanks Mandy

                  Frazzled seen tour next post another one to check Thank you
                  Last edited by bubblebelle; 15-08-13, 10:14. Reason: addition
                  Bubblebelle x

                  FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Got carried away when I saw Bredgar as I have family from there

                    Sorry don't have Ancestry can you tell me George's dob or age at marriage

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      No help I'm afraid, I have no DOB and marriage cert only has full age. He states his occupation as a surgeon, which is also identified in the marriage certs of his children. So although I don't know much re training in this era I would imagine he would be at least in his mid 20's. Surgeons are all around the Randolph and wider family but Medical Registers don't start until 1850's by which time he was abroad.
                      Bubblebelle x

                      FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                      Comment


                      • #12


                        Interesting piece showing the difference between surgeons and physicians and where to find information on registers etc
                        Last edited by Frazzled; 15-08-13, 15:00.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just to add the mix found this contender

                          George Pye christened 14/2/1819 in Newland, Charing Kent. Father Thomas Pye farmer mother Maria
                          There are several brothers and sisters which are on familysearch but there is a sister Jane Pye christened 2/11/1823.

                          Looks like Thomas was buried 11/9/1833 and Maria 29/9/1827 so neither would show up on the 1841 census
                          Last edited by Frazzled; 16-08-13, 09:23.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I notice that the marriage was by Licence Mandy, [1842 islington] have you followed this up?
                            Julie
                            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                            .......I find dead people

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh that is interesting Caroline, will have a look at that. Re surgeons, thank you for the link, I have more or less exhausted the online info for surgeons, apothecaries etc. I have read the London College blurb and think I would have to actually go there to look, most of the other surgeons in the family were in London, although I have found his father in law attaining his surgeon and apothecary status in the newspaper.

                              Julie, thank you for highlighting that can you let me know where I should be looking for the license.

                              I have a long list for Kew, the Metropolitan Archive and British Library.... I really am going to have to move away from the computer methinks to answer some of these questions.
                              Bubblebelle x

                              FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Mandy,

                                I think that you would be looking at the LMA for the licence, though I am not totally sure, I know I have seen Licences at the Archives in Leicestershire.
                                Julie
                                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                .......I find dead people

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Many thanks Julie, another for the list...
                                  Bubblebelle x

                                  FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    london marriage licenses are on ancestry:

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by kylejustin View Post
                                      london marriage licenses are on ancestry:

                                      http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=1541
                                      thanks Kyle, I am having a look now.. [I can never remember what exactly Ancestry do hold, and can never find it either!]
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        you could try http://www.archivecdbooks.ie/

                                        and I have just noticed this too, which is very handy to know!:

                                        downloadable PDF's that you can get all kinds of info in this format, if you choose the 'protection' part you can login to their site and download/view anytime..

                                        Julie
                                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                        .......I find dead people

                                        Comment

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