Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sgt Master Tailor james rowland b 1765 ?Wales ?London ?Herts ?where

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Sgt Master Tailor james rowland b 1765 ?Wales ?London ?Herts ?where

    The above named chap is my long term brick wall.
    He evaded all census except the 1841 where he was born "out of county" and was living in Great Baddow, Essex.
    He was a bellringer of note in the area (?anywhere before) and there is still a plaque to him in Gt. Baddow St. Mary the Virgin ringing chamber (it is possible to check out bellringers and I have found nothing except from G. Baddow Church).
    Occupation Military ?83rd Foot (pretty much ruled out although I have an old document giving the date of him joining which cannot be true as they had been disbanded by that date into the Aberdeen Militia and the Loyal Lincoln Volunteers - it is now the Royal Irish Rifles and they say if he fought in Lord Hill's Column, which he said he did, he was not in the 2nd btn of that regt - he was certainly in Lincs (Stamford) in 1797), 81st Foot (a real possibility but they didn't serve in Salamanca and he says he did - in fact he was wounded there)
    Married x 2:
    1. Elizabeth Jocelyn b 1771 Felstead, Stebbing, Essex - d 1813 Gt. Baddow, Essex
    Married 19 April 1795 age 24 (by Banns - both otp) in Bishops Stortford, Hertfordshire - have entry and have checked witnesses to no avail.
    7 children - the oldest Robert Joslin Rowland was born in Stamford, Lincolnshire (All Saints baptism) in 1797 - have copy of original entry.

    2. Hannah Mabbs b 24.1.1802 Billericay, Essex (age 13 on marriage i.e. younger than than James' 2 oldest children)
    Married 19.10.1815 at St. Mary's Church, Great Baddow, Essex - witnesses: Robert Foster and Mary Rowland (Mary is probably James' eldest daughter b 1801) - not sure about Robert Foster or who he is.
    Hannah died in Renfrewshire, Scotland on 11.10.1873 (have copy of her obituary from Greenock Adv 16.10.1873 and she is shown as "Annah Mabbs widow of James Rowland Tailor of Gt. Baddow, Essed" so it is definitely her.
    6 children with James Rowland. Hannah and James had 6 children and James pre-deceased her dying in 1846.

    All children from both wives have been found and researched - all males were military and mostly tailors - all military records are held - no clues to James Rowland among them.

    I suppose my question is - can anyone point me in the right direction to find James. There is an entry on FMP which shows a James Rowland joining 81st Regt of Foot ?year and beside it says refer to Wales and Hereford???? - he is transferring from the Loyal Lincs Volunteers 6th btn. These records are held at TNA to which I have no wish ever to return and it does involve going there and searching microfilm. The museum of the 81st foot have records from the Napoleonic era but unless I am paying £20 per hour for a search and/or visiting and searching myself for which the price is the same, I am unlikely to be able to find out more from them.
    James does not appear to be a Chelsea or Kilmainham Pensioner.

    Sue

  • #2
    There's this baptism on Familysearch.org

    James Rowland
    Gender: Male
    Christening Date: 20 Jan 1765
    Christening Place: CHURCHILL,OXFORD,ENGLAND
    Birth Date: 17 Jan 1765
    Father's Name:
    Mother's Name: Elizabeth Rowland
    Mother's Birthplace:
    Mother's Age:
    Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03338-1
    System Origin: England-ODM
    GS Film number: 95230

    Margaret

    Comment


    • #3
      What is the record you've found on FMP? Is there a National Archives ref for it, or how is it described?
      The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
      Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by annswabey View Post
        What is the record you've found on FMP? Is there a National Archives ref for it, or how is it described?
        There are 18 records coming up on FMP for J Rowland all national Archives all WO series Chelsea.

        I looked at one or two and they are images of a register - looked like discharge for the first one I looked at and for the second one it was a review of pension.

        Margaret
        Last edited by margaretmarch; 14-08-13, 15:31.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Margaret,

          The Oxford chap is not mine - he was on the 1841 census in Oxford I think whereas my chap was on the Great Baddow, Essex 1841 census with the correct family. Many thanks for that though.

          Sue

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi annswabey and Margaret,

            TNA reference for the document that was found is: Vol 2 of WO12/10764 - it was from the documents transcribed by Barbara Chambers. It also says 6th btn - this refers I understand to the Loyal Lincolnshire Regiment. It also says: refer to Hereford and Wales which makes it even more hopeful as James was recruited (so my old document says) in Newtown, Montgomeryshire. I understand also that historically the Lincs Regt had connections with the South Wales Borderers.

            I cannot look at it again to refresh my mind as I have no membership to FMP now.

            Sue
            Last edited by Sue1; 14-08-13, 15:38.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Sue - so it's a Muster Roll, then, and of course, they can only be viewed at Kew - v likely an original document, rather than a film.
              Last edited by annswabey; 14-08-13, 16:11.
              The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
              Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

              Comment


              • #8
                That is bad news as they give little or no identifying information sadly.

                Sue

                Comment


                • #9
                  The first and/or last MIGHT!
                  The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                  Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by annswabey View Post
                    Thanks Sue - so it's a Muster Roll, then, and of course, they can only be viewed at Kew - v likely an original document, rather than a film.
                    Hi Ann, I have been trying to "crack" the TNA site and came up with some interesting stuff about the South Lincs Militia - I also came up with interesting info about Lincoln Archives:
                    The official archive of the UK government. Our vision is to lead and transform information management, guarantee the survival of today's information for tomorrow and bring history to life for everyone.

                    Although I read the above on TNA site - TNA say these documents are only available at Lincoln Archives - I have actually been there in the past but really didn't know what I was looking for or how to search logically - what do you think: TNA or Lincoln? Equidistant from NE Cambs.

                    Sue
                    Last edited by Sue1; 19-06-15, 15:04.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'd email Lincs Archives, if I were you, to find out exactly what they have in addition to Musters (if by rolls they mean Musters)and which years the Musters actually cover. Have you found Musters for the appropriate years at TNA?
                      The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                      Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by annswabey View Post
                        I'd email Lincs Archives, if I were you, to find out exactly what they have in addition to Musters (if by rolls they mean Musters)and which years the Musters actually cover. Have you found Musters for the appropriate years at TNA?
                        No, haven't found them at the National Archives because I didn't know then that he was (probably) in the South Lincolnshire Militia which became one of the battalions of the 81st Regiment of Foot (now the Anglian Regiment with a base in Lancs and Napoleonic Records). The 83rd Regiment: I have a written document (by his youngest son, saying he was in this Regiment) is not logical because that Regiment was disbanded before he joined it.
                        He was from Montgomeryshire in Wales apparently (yet to be fully proved) and had joined (he said) the 83rd in Newtown, Monty in 178? which he couldn't have done. I noticed (when I could access it - and that was a while ago) that the South Lincolnshire Militia is on FMP and there is a reference to 2 Rowlands, one of whom was a James. I ignored it because I didn't realise it COULD have been him. It also said, I remember, that the S. Lincs Militia (which became the Loyal Lincolnshire Volunteers and was absorbed into the 81st) has connections with the Lincs Militia and South Wales Borderers. I am obviously not entirely sure what all this means BUT I have visited Lincoln Archives (right at the beginning of my researches) and, not having a clue at what I was really looking at (probably muster rolls or paybooks) did see a Rowland joining the 81st from Scotland but other than the name there was nothing else about him at all ..........when the 83rd was disbanded in split into 2 parts - part went to Scotland as a Volunteer Regiment and the other part I can't remember where it went but didn't sound remotely relevant.
                        I have had contact with the HQ of the 81st (the Anglian Regiment) in Lancashire and they told me that a) it wouldn't be unusual for him to have referred to the Regiment as the 83rd because it was basically a re-raising of the 83rd.
                        The Lincs Militia formed, when it was amalgamated, 2btns of the 81st (1st and 2nd) The first btn in the Napoleonic Wars seemed to concentrate on Holland, Belgium, Sicily etc. The 2bt concentrated on Spain and Portugal and they were involved in the Battles of Corunna, Talavera etc. These battles are commented on in the document I have by his son BUT apart from mentioning the above places he also said he was wounded in Salamanca. The 81st don't seem to be mentioned with regard to that battle; he also said that he fought in Lord Hill's column ................not sure Lord Hill fought in those battles and he, according to the Museum, was NOT at Salamanca.
                        I know the 1btn did eventually go to Spain but it was Tarragona, Cambrils and places around those areas - they were never in the main battle.
                        As a Tailor he would have been HQ staff and could have been used wherever the person who was in charge wanted to send him. It almost sounds as though he served with the 1bt and then was transferred to the 2bt.

                        "A record of the services of the Family of Sergt.Major T Rowlands in the British Army,
                        Sergt Master Tailor James Rowlands. Enlisted in Newtown Montgomeryshire in
                        the 83rd Regt 24th January 1787 at the age of 18 years, Served in the
                        following engagements : "Talavera""Busaco" "Cuidad Rodrigo" "Badajos"
                        and "Salamanca'. He was severely wounded in the hip at Salamanca.
                        He belonged to Lord Hills Column and died in 1846."

                        Sue
                        Last edited by Sue1; 19-06-15, 21:55.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You need to check whether any of the records on FMP relate to him, then I'd suggest that you access the records at Lincs Archives. Bear in mind, though, that they may not contain much, if any, personal info. However, there are Musters for 83rd Foot (1 Bn) at TNA for the relevant period - this one, for example, although there are more

                          WO 12/8671
                          Description:

                          83rd Foot 1st Battalion
                          Date: 1778 - 1797
                          The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
                          Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X