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How to find the right marriage for Phyllis

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  • How to find the right marriage for Phyllis

    Hi

    I'm trying to find the right marriage for Phyllis May Dale born 12th June 1913 in Bream.

    By a process of elimination - long and complicated and involving many Phyllis Dales because there were so many! - I narrowed it down to Ernest H W Norris marrying Phyllis May Dale in 1933 in Edmonton. Ernest was born in 1912 in Bridgend Wales and the family went back to settle there. Possibly when WW2 broke out. Their first daughter was born in London, the other children in Wales.

    I have sent for the marriage cert but it's still on the way from the UK to Oz. Now though I have a sinking feeling that it may not be the right family. I can find the death of Ernest in 1999, but no match of a death record for Phyllis. Lots of wrong ones and no right ones.

    Just a hunch now that I am probably wrong, so back to the drawing broad I think.

    If anyone could help, that would be wonderful

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Hi Felix and welcome to FTF
    If you would like some help I wonder if you could tell us how you got back to Phyllis (without giving the names of living people of course) and why you think that you have the wrong marriage.

    p.s. As Phyllis was only born in 1913 it may of course that she hasn't died or has died since 2007?
    Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 23-07-13, 10:09.
    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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    • #3
      Hi
      Are you sure you have the right date of birth for Phyllis? I can't seem to find her in the birth index.
      Moggie

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      • #4
        I have just been having a look again and Ernest appears to have died in 1991 in Ogwr, Glamorgan - not 1999.
        Someone has a tree on Ancestry and has his wife Phyllis M as being born in April quarter of 1913 in Essex - and her parents as Dale and Wicks. They also have her death as 2009 but with no details. Not sure how well researched that tree is, re her birth etc, but I would guess that they know something about her to know/think that she died in 2009.
        Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 23-07-13, 11:23.
        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

        Comment


        • #5
          Just googled and found a thread (presume yours) on the Forest of Dean website


          From what I can see you have the names of Phyllis parents which are William Allen Dale - born 1878 -and Edith May Preest - married in 1912.

          If this is correct then the birth registration for Phyllis appears to be this one:


          Phyllis M Dale
          Mother's Maiden Name - Preest
          Date of Registration - Jul-Aug-Sep 1913
          District - Monmouth
          Volume 11a, page 30.

          Where does the suggestion of her being born in Bream come from - unless there is a place called Bream in Monmouthshire? The only one I know is Gloucestershire.
          Elaine







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          • #6
            Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
            Just googled and found a thread (presume yours) on the Forest of Dean website


            From what I can see you have the names of Phyllis parents which are William Allen Dale - born 1878 -and Edith May Preest - married in 1912.


            If this is correct then the birth registration for Phyllis appears to be this one:


            Phyllis M Dale
            Mother's Maiden Name - Preest
            Date of Registration - Jul-Aug-Sep 1913
            District - Monmouth
            Volume 11a, page 30.

            Where does the suggestion of her being born in Bream come from - unless there is a place called Bream in Monmouthshire? The only one I know is Gloucestershire.
            Google says Bream Gloucestershire is 10 min drive to Monmouthshire.
            Maybe it was in Monmouthshire back then before boundary changes
            Edna
            Last edited by clematised; 23-07-13, 12:00.

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            • #7
              Thanks Edna. UK geography obviously not one of my strong points!
              Elaine







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              • #8
                Thanks Chrissie. I hadn't thought that she could have died since 2007. But of course that's very possible.

                How I got back to Phyllis is through her dad William Alan Dale who was born in South Africa, but whose father was born in Cheshire and lived in South Africa during the 1870s-1890s rougthly. William Alan came to the UK some time between 1901 and 1911 as far as we can tell. He first appears on the 1911 census in Lydney in Monmouthshire as it was then. He married Phyllis May's mum in 1912. A very interesting story.

                Thanks!!

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                • #9
                  You're right. So sorry! Typing error. Ernest did die in 1991.

                  Thanks for the info about Phyllis May. I am sure I've got the wrong marriage and that tree on Ancestry is accurate.

                  Your help is much appreciated.

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                  • #10
                    Yes, Bream was in Monmouthshire in 1913. UK geography is definitely not one of my strong points either. :o

                    Thanks for the interest.

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                    • #11
                      You can search the UK death index by using the birth date as one of the criteria.

                      If you search for Phyllis May (and leave surname blank) with a birth date of 12 June 1913 then there are only three results:

                      Phyllis May Bailey - death registered Sep 1985 South Glamorgan
                      Phyllis May Leigh - death registered Sep 1988 Congleton and Crewe Cheshire
                      Phyllis May Peat - death registered Nov 2003 Bournemouth Hampshire

                      Not having much luck at the moment pairing any of these up with Phyllis May Dale.


                      Searching just using Phyllis with a birth date of 12 June 1913, gives a few more possibilities:

                      Phyllis Corkish - death registered May 1997 Liverpool Lancashire
                      Phyllis Dobbs - death registered Jun 1996 North east Lincolnshire
                      Phyllis Jones - death registered Jan 1997 Liverpool Lancashire
                      Phyllis Walmsley - death registered Jan 1986 Grimsby Lincolnshire

                      (On this last search there are others, which I have discounted as they have different middle names.)


                      Can I ask where the birth date of 12 June 1913 came from?
                      Elaine







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                      • #12
                        Hi Elaine

                        Thanks so much:o for the above. The date of birth came from the admission records of Bream school when Phyllis May was enrolled there by her father. I was able to get a copy from the Gloucestershire Archives.

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                        • #13
                          I am really confused now Felix. The marriage to Edith Preest in Monmouth only gives his name as William Dale (no middle initial). They appears to be the parents of Phyllis May Dale. The only marrriage I can see of a William A Dale in 1912 is to a Gertrude L Tonkin in Bodmin (Cornwall). I also can't find William Dale,born in South Africa and living in Monmouth in 1911. Is he living with anyone?
                          Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                          • #14
                            I've found a Phyllis M Dale marrying a Cecil L Jones in Ripon in 1942 which seems to be a match for the Phyllis Jones, death registered Jan 1997 in Liverpool. Ripon is very near Liverpool.

                            I've got something to look into further.

                            Thanks!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
                              . I also can't find William Dale,born in South Africa and living in Monmouth in 1911. Is he living with anyone?
                              I think it's this one Chrissie - somewhat mistranscribed as William Sale born 1879 South Apriea
                              Elaine







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                              • #16
                                Hi Chrissie

                                Sorry for the confusion. I'm still very much learning as I go in Oz and my knowledge of UK geography leaves a lot to be desired.

                                William Dale and Edith May Preest were Phyllis May's parents, yes. Also parents of Winifred Edith born 1914, Allan Thomas born 1916 and Doris Irene born 1918. They were married on 6th August 1912 when Edith was only 15 and William was 34 - though they give their ages as 18 and 27. I have a copy of their marriage cert. Their right birth dates are also on the copy of the Sept Register that was taken for rationing just before the outbreak of WW2. The Allan in William Allan is on the marriage certs of his daughters Winifred Edith and Doris Irene. Also his children's baptism records.

                                In the 1911 census William Dale is boarding in Lydney Monmouthshire with a pair of spinster sisters aged 84 and 81, Harriet and Jane Bettington.

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                                • #17
                                  Where did Winifred and Doris marry?
                                  Elaine







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                                  • #18
                                    Winifred marrried in Gloucester in 1938 and Doris Irene married in London in 1936 and a second time in London in 1961. :o

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Felix View Post
                                      I've found a Phyllis M Dale marrying a Cecil L Jones in Ripon in 1942 which seems to be a match for the Phyllis Jones, death registered Jan 1997 in Liverpool. Ripon is very near Liverpool.

                                      I've got something to look into further.

                                      Thanks!
                                      Ripon might look near to Liverpool on a map, and in Australian terms it is. I very much doubt if anyone in Ripon would describe it as "near"!!
                                      Anne

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Anne in Carlisle View Post
                                        Ripon might look near to Liverpool on a map, and in Australian terms it is. I very much doubt if anyone in Ripon would describe it as "near"!!
                                        Anne
                                        about 122.28 KMS or 78 miles, but back in the day there were trains linking these places (until Dr Beeching closed them all)

                                        Edna

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