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  • Henry Murphy

    Hi , I am new to Family Tree Forum. I am actively seeking information on my Great Grandfather Henry Murphy. He was a merchant seaman born in Cork Ireland about 1850. He sailed mostly around the British isles. Last record I have of him was on board the SS Killarney which was anchored in Cork on the census night of 1901. He was a widower at the time and probably living on ships all of the time. I have no idea where he went after 1901 and cannot find any record of his death. Obviously it is quite possible that he could have died at sea or in some port other than Cork. I would appreciate any pointers as to where I could enquire. Thanks for any help.

  • #2
    there are a few Henry Murphy deaths born abt 1850 on Ancestry but I am not any good at Irish place names so not sure how far from Cork
    Last edited by Guest; 19-07-13, 19:35.

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    • #3
      Hello Tom and welcome to the forum :smilee:

      do you subscribe to any sites at all Ancestry/Findmypast/Genealogist?

      can you give a link or details for the 1901 census that you have please.

      you mention that you are looking for information on Henry, do you have him in census returns? do you know when/where he married.. what type of information are you after, if you could give us some indication that would be great, and also what type of info you have already [so we don't duplicate the findings]
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Darksecretz, yes I subscribe to Ancestry.Uk and on occasions I have taken payg subscriptions to findmypast.uk.Also findmypast.ie. The census details for the 1901 census of Ireland is through the irish national Archives followed by name...henry Murphy and place...Cork. The census info shows Henry murphy on board the SS Killarney moored at St Patricks Quay,Cork. He is described as a widower and aged 56 yrs. I have no record of his marriage but I do have the Baptismal Certificate of my grandfather..Thomas Murphy born on July 11th 1873 to parents Henry Murphy and Honora Daly. The baptism was at St Mary's Church, Passage West, Co Cork. As regards my Grandfather, I do have Birth.Marriage and death records together with records of all his children. basically,I am trying to get as much information on my Great Grandfather but mostly his place of death,date of death and place of burial. Hope this information helps. regards Tom

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        • #5
          Hi Val, I have looked at all of those henry Murphys who died after 1901 but nothing stood out as likely. My problem is that I have no idea just when ( after 1901 census ) and where henry died. Regards....Tom

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          • #6
            do you know where and when Honora died ?

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            • #7
              There are two references for Henry Murphy born Passage c1850 on the FMP crewlists for voyages in 1897.(I don't think these records give much genealogical information on crew members though, it's mainly brief details of the ship and owner, plus previous ship crew served on.)

              Jay
              Janet in Yorkshire



              Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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              • #8
                Passage West falls within the Cork city civil registration district. Searching the death indexes for Honora Murphy died 1873 – 1901 gets 8 matches. Of those only 1 is really of an age likely to have been married to a man born c 1845. She was born c 1851 and died in 1875 (Volume 5, page 154). So that’s a possible you might want to investigate.

                There are no deaths in the Cork city registration area 1901 – 1930 for someone named Henry Murphy, born around 1845. So perhaps he died elsewhere. He’s not in the 1911 Irish census. I assume you have checked the English & Scottish 1911 censuses. If he’s not there, as a sailor, he might easily have been outside the British Isles on census night and so not included anywhere.

                I can’t see a marriage in the Cork area between Henry Murphy and Honora Daly. The names are both very common though and they might have married elsewhere, or before 1864, which is when RC marriages were first included in the civil records.
                Elwyn

                I am based in Co. Antrim and undertake research in Northern Ireland. Please feel free to contact me for help or advice via PM.

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                • #9
                  If he was 56 in 1901 then his birth date would have been abt 1845 (not 1850). This may assist in finding his death record.
                  Brian
                  Avatar: My wife and I with the family "cat".

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                  • #10
                    I couldn't find the marriage either

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                    • #11
                      How about this death ?

                      Henry Murphy
                      Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
                      Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1907
                      Death Age: 62
                      Registration District: Dublin South
                      Death Country: Ireland
                      Volume: 2
                      Page: 559
                      FHL Film Number: 0101603

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                      • #12
                        Hi to all those of you who have read my enquiry and offered advice... To Janet in Yorkshire, yes I have a record of Henry's two voyages in 1897. They were both for 6 month periods and onboard the vessel " Louise " Captain was Thomas maddock. Ther is also a mention of a previous engagement on vessel " Sultan " To Brian BS yes I am aware of the discrepancy in My GGrandfathers age...On the census of 1901 his age is given as 56 and as you said,that would place his birth around c1845. However in the two ships records above from findmypast, his year of birth is given on both engagements as 1850. It just widens the scope of the search I guess....To Elwyn. I will take onboard your suggestion that I look in the 1911 censuses for Scotland and for England in the hope that henry was still living then and possibly in a port of one of these two countries. He could of course have been on a voyage and then would not appear on any census. Henry could have been married prior to the Irish Civil marriage registrations commencement in 1864 but that would have put him in late teens when married. I am unable to find any other children of Henry and Honora and I wonder if perhaps Henry was married to someone else and had become a widower and then taken up with Honora but never marrying her ? I know that it is a long shot but there is a record of henry murphy marrying Ellen downey and having some children. I will look at a death for Ellen Downey Murphy and see when it occurred.My thanks also to Val for looking for the marriage. I must say that I really appreciate all of this help and I hope that it will prove fruitful in the end......Best regards to all......Yom.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tomahern View Post
                          Hi to all those of you who have read my enquiry and offered advice... To Janet in Yorkshire, yes I have a record of Henry's two voyages in 1897. They were both for 6 month periods and onboard the vessel " Louise " Captain was Thomas maddock. Ther is also a mention of a previous engagement on vessel " Sultan " To Brian BS yes I am aware of the discrepancy in My GGrandfathers age...On the census of 1901 his age is given as 56 and as you said,that would place his birth around c1845. However in the two ships records above from findmypast, his year of birth is given on both engagements as 1850. It just widens the scope of the search I guess....To Elwyn. I will take onboard your suggestion that I look in the 1911 censuses for Scotland and for England in the hope that henry was still living then and possibly in a port of one of these two countries. He could of course have been on a voyage and then would not appear on any census. Henry could have been married prior to the Irish Civil marriage registrations commencement in 1864 but that would have put him in late teens when married. I am unable to find any other children of Henry and Honora and I wonder if perhaps Henry was married to someone else and had become a widower and then taken up with Honora but never marrying her ? I know that it is a long shot but there is a record of henry murphy marrying Ellen downey and having some children. I will look at a death for Ellen Downey Murphy and see when it occurred.My thanks also to Val for looking for the marriage. I must say that I really appreciate all of this help and I hope that it will prove fruitful in the end......Best regards to all......Yom.
                          Might be worth sending for that death cert I found for 1907 as it matches one of the years of birth and is in the right area.
                          Margaret

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                          • #14
                            I cannot see any relevance to purchasing a death cert for a Henry Murphy dying Dublin 1907. This would not appear to have any bearing on the Henry Murphy who is anchored around Cork Harbour on the 1901 Irish census.

                            Murphy is the most common Irish name, so there will be hundreds of Henry Murphy all over Ireland.

                            Tom,

                            He is clearly a mariner and you have names of ships he was on, so I am wondering if a search of the Merchant Mariners register at the National Archives Kew might be a first port of call to see if he is on that register. Unfortunately only a few remain within the UK, about 10%, so that is a very long shot. If not at Kew it may be worth contacting the National Archives of Ireland in Dublin to check if they have any registers of Merchant Mariners and then maybe contact the Newfoundland Archives for lists of registers of Merchant Mariners of the UK as many more records survive there, and as you have names of ships, this will help you considerably to find any records that might be available. Not sure of web address for Newfoundland but just do a google search for Newfoundland Merchant Mariners Records. Don't forget that Ireland was part of the UK until 1922 so remember to look at TNA Kew for possible records. I noticed one ship was SS so have presumed he is of the Merchant Fleet, but I am also wondering if he could have been Royal Navy at some time so are those records worth researching at Kew? Mind you you might come up against a few Henry Murphy there as well!!

                            Having written the above I see you have found information on FMP regarding Henry's seamanship so that information has probably come from TNA Kew? But you do not always get the full information on the Sub sites, so I would definitely try to see if there is any more information available at TNA Kew. I am also wondering if Greenwich Museum may help as they also have lot of records of merchant mariners. The more you can find out about his seagoing career, the more likely you are to reach his date and place of death.

                            http://www.rmg.co.uk/contact/family-history/l



                            Janet
                            Last edited by Janet; 21-07-13, 19:05.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Janet View Post
                              I cannot see any relevance to purchasing a death cert for a Henry Murphy dying Dublin 1907. This would not appear to have any bearing on the Henry Murphy who is anchored around Cork Harbour on the 1901 Irish census.

                              Murphy is the most common Irish name, so there will be hundreds of Henry Murphy all over Ireland.

                              He is clearly a mariner and you have names of ships he was on, so I am wondering if a search of the Merchant Mariners register at the National Archives Kew might be a first port of call to see if he is on that register. Unfortunately only a few remain within the UK, about 10%, so that is a very long shot. If not at Kew it may be worth contacting the National Archives of Ireland in Dublin to check if they have any registers of Merchant Mariners and then maybe contact the Newfoundland Archives for lists of registers of Merchant Mariners of the UK as many more records survive there, and as you have names of ships, this will help you considerably to find any records that might be available. Not sure of web address for Newfoundland but just do a google search for Newfoundland Merchant Mariners Records. Don't forget that Ireland was part of the UK until 1922 so remember to look at TNA Kew for possible records. I noticed one ship was SS so have presumed he is of the Merchant Fleet, but I am also wondering if he could have been Royal Navy at some time so are those records worth researching at Kew? Mind you you might come up against a few Henry Murphy there as well!!

                              Having written the above I see you have found information on FMP regarding Henry's seamanship so that information has probably come from TNA Kew? But you do not always get the full information on the Sub sites, so I would definitely try to see if there is any more information available at TNA Kew. I am also wondering if Greenwich Museum may help as they also have lot of records of merchant mariners. The more you can find out about his seagoing career, the more likely you are to reach his date and place of death.

                              http://www.rmg.co.uk/contact/family-history/l



                              Janet
                              I quoted that death record because Henry Murphy's year of birth has been shown as variously 1845/1850 and since he disappeared between 1901 and 1911 it seemed to me it could reasonably be him as Dublin is a port too.

                              I'm not sure why you feel it should be dismissed so readily.
                              Margaret

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                              • #16
                                Margaret,

                                I am not meaning to be dismissive, but I just cannot see the relevance of a Henry Murphy death record in Dublin for 1907 as being the same name Henry Murphy last seen in Cork 1901 whose baptism was c 1845 to 1850.

                                As I see it the facts are that Henry Murphy was last seen St Patrick's Quay 1901 Irish census. He is a sailor according to the 1901 Census and would appear not to have been found on the 1911 Irish census. One cannot assume a death between 1901 and 1911 because as a mariner he could indeed be anywhere in the world, and although he is 50 to 56 in 1901 census that would still enable him to go on being a mariner for many years. If he has not been seen in Dublin before 1907, then why assume the one you found may be the one being sought? I am sorry but I really cannot see the relevance. Why not check out the 1901 Census for Dublin to see if a Henry Murphy is on there? In any case if one applied for the death certificate which arrived showing no relative informant or an informant unknown, what would that prove and would not that be a waste of money? I would prefer to try other methods first, and if there is some proof that he ever went to Dublin then that would be a different matter.

                                I have just checked 1901 Irish Census and there are 41 Henry Murphy on the Dublin Census! Now I am sure you could get rid of many by age but I would be surprised if at least one of those 41 is going to be baptised around 1845/1850 and so which of those Henry Murphy is the one that died 1907?

                                Just rechecked and there are 15 to choose from, none of whom will be the Henry Murphy found in Cork 1901 Census.

                                Tom

                                For what its worth St Patrick's Quay is right in the centre of Cork City and the census refers to a "house ship". Where is Thomas living in 1901 and what happened to him born 1873, if his mother died 1875? What relatives have been found around Cork City or Passage West area for this family and what occupation did Thomas have? Is it possible to find out what happened to Henry through Thomas?

                                Janet
                                Last edited by Janet; 21-07-13, 19:53.

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                                • #17
                                  http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ subscribe to this site where you may get some information as they are helpful as I have used them in the past, free of charge

                                  Edna

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                                  • #18
                                    Hi again to all, Thank you for your posts. I spent a lot of time yesterday going through family history and can answer some of your questions. I have looked on all of the merchant sailor sites and have not been able to come up with any more information on Henry. I looked at the Ancestry site and LDS Family search for Honora and could only find reference to her on the birth of their child "Thomas Henry " born july 11th 1873. I have all papers relating to Thomas including marriage and death certificates. Thomas cannot be found on the 1901 census but as he was also a merchant sailor then it is quite possible that he was away on a voyage at the time of the census. He married my grandmother "Ellen Waddy " in 1904 and on the marriage certificate he was described as a widower. He would have been aged around 30 yrs at the time. The family resided in Cork and appear on the 1911 census.My mother was the eldest child of the family. Thomas sailed as AB on the SS Ardmore and in November 1917 the vessel was torpedoed by German submarine U75 off the coast of Wexford whilst enroute from London to Cork with general cargo. 19 members of the crew lost their lives and 8 survived. My grandfather was amongst the survivors. The site of the sinking is now listed as a war grave and protected. Ironically the submarine was itself sunk some two months later with the loss of all hands off the French coast. That wrecksite is also a war grave. Thomas died in 1936 and is buried in Cork. As to the reference in the 1901 census St Patricks Quay House/Ship, that was standard practice on the census forms but there were additional sheets for marine identification purposes. He was onboard the vessel SS Killarney and I have a copy of the record.I have tried to do a follow up on the ship to see where it sailed afterwards but nothing has come to light.Any ideas or info would be most welcome..Regards to all..Tom

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                                    • #19
                                      Thanks Edna. I tried the site but did not find anything. Obliged for your help and interest. Tom

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                                      • #20
                                        Janet, I was born and raised in Cork just a stones throw from the docks. My family are all still living there but I have lived in Cheadle Hulme for some 40 years. Thanks for all your help..Regards Tom

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