Was there a code of conduct for Policemen in 1920's/1930's?

[JBee]

regarding marriage?

Am looking for a friend who's grandfather was believed to be a policeman. However can't find a marriage between parents and there's children of this union.

What records are available for Lancashire/Cheshire Policemen?

Any help much appreciated.

[Olde Crone Holden]

To answer part of your question, yes, there wa a code of conduct for policemen, but I doubt if anyone would ask him to PROVE he was legally married. Any problems would come only when his "widow" tried to claim a pension - she would need to produce a marriage cert at that point but maybe it never came to that?

Are you sure they never married?

OC

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Sometimes there's an error of various kinds in the index, which may be overcome by doing separate look ups under the name of just one party, then the other.

[JBee]

I've looked at both but can't find anything - wonder if Lancashire/Cheshire was subject to records not making it to the GRO?

Have sent for the birth certificate of friend's mother to see what that says.

Apparently friend's mother had said he was very strict with the children because of his position so it seems strange that he wouldn't have married.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I can confirm that many Lancashire records never made it to the GRO. I have six(?) certificates obtained from local Manchester ROs which do not appear on the GRO indexes, or if they do they are so mangled as to be completely hidden from my view!

OC

Have you checked Lancsbmd and Cheshirebmd?

[JBee]

Thanks OC - that's what I thought I remembered.

Yes have checked Lancs & Cheshire BDM's to no avail.

It would have been Ashton under Lyne district I would have thought. So wonder if they had same problem.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Are you sure it wasn't a second marriage for the mother?
I spent weeks trying to find the marriage of John Carroll & Elizabeth Carey. It was only when I couldn't find the birth of the eldest son reg as either Carroll or Carey that I looked again at possible marriages for each party. A John Carroll married Elizabeth Fletcher in 1877 - An Elizabeth Carey had married John Fletcher in 1869 and was widowed in 1873; the eldest child was from this marriage and had been registered as Fletcher.
I am constantly getting caught out by marriages to widows.:o

Jay

[Olde Crone Holden]

I remember we once had a very long thread about missing marriages and the gist of it was that in theory, if a church only performs very few marriages, it is quite possible they have not yet deposited their register with the liocal register office, so that although the marriage has been registered with the local office (by means of quarterly returns from the church) it is not possible for either the local office or the GRO to issue a copy.

now, reading that back it doesn't make sense to me, lol, so I've got something wrong there, but I DO remember the thing about marriages at little-used marriage venues not showing up in any indexes!

It goes without saying that you have checked for marriages upto their deaths?

OC

[JudithM]

I remember we once had a very long thread about missing marriages and the gist of it was that in theory, if a church only performs very few marriages, it is quite possible they have not yet deposited their register with the liocal register office, so that although the marriage has been registered with the local office (by means of quarterly returns from the church) it is not possible for either the local office or the GRO to issue a copy.

now, reading that back it doesn't make sense to me, lol, so I've got something wrong there, but I DO remember the thing about marriages at little-used marriage venues not showing up in any indexes!

It goes without saying that you have checked for marriages upto their deaths?

OC

This would account for marriages not being found in local register office but should not result in absence from the GRO index. Each church keeps two copies of the marriage register, one is the church copy, the other goes to the local register office when full - which may be a long time after the event. However the church also has to make a quarterly return of marriages which goes to the GRO. Of course there is room for error - either marriages being missed when the quarterly return is written up, the return being "lost in the post" or not entered on the GRO index because the clerk went for a tea break and lost his place etc. I've also found an instance or two where the same marriage was included on two consecutive returns so appears in to quarters at the GRO.

[JBee]

I thought about second marriages but found nothing when I put the grandfather's surname and mothers christian names in. Have only just started helping and friend has only limited info although she seemed to think that they would have married in a register office as she thinks she heard he'd been married before.

[Olde Crone Holden]

Married before explains why he didn't marry her - divorce was difficult and expensive.

I was helping a friend who was absolutely adamant that her parents married at Caxton Hall in London. She knew this because her mother told her and her mother was a very honest and upright woman. I simply could not find this marriage - very unusual name - and more or less gave up. She kept asking me to look again and I did. This went on for about 6 months. Then her sister told her that their mother had confided on her death bed that she and their father had never married because he was already married. Moral of the story - things are not always as we think they are.

In family history:
1. Believe everything until you've proved otherwise.
2. Believe nothing until you've proved otherwise.

OC

[JBee]

Very true OC.

I've already suggested that to my friend but I did think that if he was a policeman? the authorities wouldn't have tolerated him living with someone when not married especially in the 1920's.

It will be interesting to see friend's mum's birth certificate - expected next week.

[Jill on the A272]

Then as now it was no business of any authority whether he was married or not, it would only be an issue if a widow was claiming a pension.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I think it was always assumed that people were married because it would be such an insult to ask people to prove that they were.

I expect the birth cert will give information to make it look as if they were married!

You could look for a divorce but by the 1920s and 30s, there aren't all that many on TNA.

OC

[kylejustin]

i found both divorces for my great grandmother's siblings on the archives. they were from 1917-1924. try searching for the father's name on discovery at the national archives site.

[JBee]

Update - father occupation isn't a policeman on the birth certificate of friend's mother!!!!!

Erm.....

[Olde Crone Holden]

Ha ha, there goes the first myth.......

So what was his occupation then?

OC

[JBee]

A coal carter!!!!!!!

Friend is going to phone her mum tonight to see what info she can get out of her which will probably be tricky if she's thought her dad was a policeman for 85 years. I did find a brother for her too but he died within days/weeks.

Friend reckons her mother has never seen her birth certificate.

[Olde Crone Holden]

I suppose he may have become a policeman after she was born!

I have a policeman in my tree, earlier than yours though. He impregnated his 14 year old niece, then eventually married her, all this while he was a policeman. He saw out his days as a publican.

OC

[JBee]

She had a quick chat with her mother last night but didn't manage to get much information out of her.

Will try again when they get back off holiday.