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Tough Nut to Crack!

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  • Tough Nut to Crack!

    I am having some difficulty trying to find on the 1911 census Stephen George Williams (no d.o.b. known) and his son Edward James Williams (year of birth 1896). The facts are few, Edward James was born in Woolwich. and his father was a baker - that's it. I suspect they were still living in the Woolich area in 1911, but not sure. Edward James served with the Royal Sussex Regiment in WW1 and was a "runner" so could have been attached to signals, but not sure.
    This is proving a bit tough to say the least! HELP!!!
    Vonny.

  • #2
    Have you found them in 1901? Do you have Edward James Army Records?

    If the answer to both questions is no, please can you say how you've traced back to Edward James Williams son of Stephen George?

    Do you know his mother's name? When he married and to who?

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    • #3
      what about this Edward ? nearest I can find so far
      http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/23...l=ReturnRecord

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      • #4
        I've searched census records for a Stephen Williams, occ. Baker and found only one - he's not yours. Living/born 1881 Staffordshire.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by susan h View Post
          Have you found them in 1901? Do you have Edward James Army Records?

          If the answer to both questions is no, please can you say how you've traced back to Edward James Williams son of Stephen George?

          Do you know his mother's name? When he married and to who?
          Edward James Williams died in Sept. 1962. in Peterborough. He married in 1931 Harriet Masters in Peterborough. His birth certificate wasn't found, the only certificate was his marriage on which his father's name was on. He had spoken (in life) of serving with the Royal Sussex regiment in WW1 as a runner in the trenches and was wounded in the back of his leg but said very little else about the experience. The name of Williams is very common but I have come across 3 possible records under the name of Edward Williams in the army records. The only possible birth regristration I have found was registered in Greenwich for the Mar. qtr.1896. He was known mainly as JIM, so another possibility is that he may have turned his name around and was James Edward.? I may have a possible birth for his father Stephen George Williams for the Mar.Qtr.1867 registered in Marylebone. Older family members have passed away so there is no-one to ask for anymore information. From Edward's marriage certificate we know his father was a baker by profession.
          Vonny

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Vonny North West View Post
            The only possible birth regristration I have found was registered in Greenwich for the Mar. qtr.1896.
            Does the above quote mean you don't know where he was born but are assuming Woolwich. If you know for sure he was born in Woolwich, then the Greenwich birth is most likely him as Greenwich was the reg district for Woolwich. If you do know he was born Woolwich then I suggest you send for the birth certificate which may be revealing.

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            • #7
              This one caught my eye, but I haven't found a starting point so it's totally random...George is a baker living in Hendon, haven't found a census and it popped up whilst searching first and middle names. Agree you could really do with sending for the birth in 1896

              London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
              Name: George Williams
              Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
              Age: 25
              Spouse Name: Sarah Elizabeth Harris
              Spouse Age: 20
              Record Type: Marriage
              Event Date: 25 Dec 1889
              Parish: Finchley St Mary
              Borough: Barnet
              Father Name: Stephen Williams...potter
              Spouse Father Name: John Harris
              Register Type: Parish Register
              Last edited by Elaine; 11-07-13, 21:07.
              Elaine

              Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

              http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
              http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

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              • #8
                Yes, I will be sending for this birth certificate as I did check out the reg district for Woolwich when searching and it is the only one I could find which does seem to fit.
                Vonny.

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                • #9
                  Good Vonny, let us know what it says when you receive it. His mother's name may help pin him down.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Vonny North West View Post
                    I may have a possible birth for his father Stephen George Williams for the Mar.Qtr.1867 registered in Marylebone. .
                    I had looked at that record but discounted it as I think he possibly died in childhood.

                    Stephen George Williams, age 2, Dec qrt 1869, Kensington, 1a/10

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                    • #11
                      The only other birth records in the name Stephen George Williams are: Sept qrt 1868, Haverfordwest, and Sept qrt 1878, Islington.

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                      • #12
                        Vonny who were the witness' on the MC please, [are these family members??]
                        Julie
                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                        .......I find dead people

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by susan h View Post
                          The only other birth records in the name Stephen George Williams are: Sept qrt 1868, Haverfordwest, and Sept qrt 1878, Islington.
                          I have also seen these, really don't know. The Islington one could be, he would have only been 18 when his son was born in 1896, which would mean he would have been with the mother since he was 17?
                          Thanks for your time I do appreciate it.
                          Vonny.

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                          • #14
                            Both the witness' were from the brides family, just an initial and then Masters, the bride was Harriet Masters known as "Hatty". The grooms age was 34, which again puts me on track for 1896 birth. However, with him being known all his life as Jim and never being called Edward, I wonder if the name should be reversed in searching for his birth. Checking back, I did find that his birthday was 9th Sept. The first birth I found was for March, but I have now found a second birth, same year but the only one for a James Edward (registered Greenwich) for Sept. qtr. I also looked on the 1911 census for a James Edward who would be 15, which would be correct with year of birth, and looking at the census his name is actually written as Edward James - unfortunately wrong father. So I think it might be a case of looking at the name both ways round. The reason why I am looking in the Woolwich area is because that was the only place mentioned and it seemed a good a place as any to start.
                            Vonny.

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                            • #15
                              What was the bride's age? Just wondering if he toned his age down if she was much younger?
                              What age is given for him at his death?
                              Margaret

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                                What was the bride's age? Just wondering if he toned his age down if she was much younger?
                                What age is given for him at his death?
                                Margaret
                                Found the death record and it says 65 so that makes 1896/97 about right.
                                Margaret

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                                • #17
                                  The brides age was 33. Yes, I too have the death record. The birth year tallies with both wedding and death ages. I have had a check through The National Archives on the war medal index for WW1 to see if there is anything there. He did say he served in the Royal Sussex Regiment and was wounded. I found only 2 named Edward Willliams and have discounted both because of the second initial not being J and another because of rank. I put in James Williams, reason being that he was known as Jim, again only 2, one I have discounted but the other might be a possibility. If anyone has access to Ancestry could you look up the following please? James Williams, Private, Royal Sussex Regiment, No. 7378. I don't have a subscription for Ancestry. It just may be possible that with a medal card there could be a war record on which would be a next of kin name. A long shot I know, but something might turn up and give away the clues I need!
                                  Many thanks to everyone for scratching their heads over this one.
                                  Vonny.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Vonny North West View Post
                                    I have had a check through The National Archives on the war medal index for WW1 to see if there is anything there. He did say he served in the Royal Sussex Regiment and was wounded. I found only 2 named Edward Willliams and have discounted both because of the second initial not being J and another because of rank. I put in James Williams, reason being that he was known as Jim, again only 2, one I have discounted but the other might be a possibility. If anyone has access to Ancestry could you look up the following please? James Williams, Private, Royal Sussex Regiment, No. 7378.
                                    Looked on Ancestry but cannot see him. Strangely I cannot even see his medal card on Ancestry, which I think is unusual!
                                    Elaine







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                                    • #19
                                      Thanks for having a look Elaine. I have looked on Forces War Records and only one E. Williams comes up with the Royal Sussex Regiment, his rank is 2nd Lieutenant. Now, Edward James said he was a "runner" in the trenches, which I have looked up, runners were taken from the ranks so I think I am right to assume that this E. Williams is not the person I am looking for as he would be an officer. I will go back to "Forces" and see if there is a J or James Williams listed.
                                      Vonny.

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                                      • #20
                                        No luck, no one listed with Royal Sussex Regiment with the name James Williams. I wonder could he have been in a reserve force with the Royal Sussex regiment? Any suggestions?
                                        Vonny.

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