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Wallaby
03-07-13, 10:13
I need help to enhance these two photos. I've scanned on 600 & tried to get them them as clear as I can, but someone might be better at photo editing than I am & so would appreciate some help please.

I've sent this photo to the British War Museum & they could not i.d the soldier's uniform because the photo is not clear enough for them to be 100% sure. They need the cap badge in particular.

Some people have said it's Army Service Corp, others are not sure. Identifying the regiment would help me to find this mystery soldier.

Thanks

Wallaby




http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Bimboalbum/Picture11.png (http://s644.photobucket.com/user/Bimboalbum/media/Picture11.png.html)



http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Bimboalbum/Picture26.png (http://s644.photobucket.com/user/Bimboalbum/media/Picture26.png.html)

Darksecretz
03-07-13, 16:14
Wallaby,

you really need to try and just scan/crop the cap badge on a higher DPI as possible, the image is far too pixellated to get any sort of clarity I'm afraid.

Wallaby
03-07-13, 16:44
I don't have the original photo Julie. It was faxed to me on 300 & I scanned the faxed copy on 600 & this is the best I can do with it, but I'm not very talented on photoshop.

I've cropped it, but I'm not confident that I can increase the pixel size. Do I need the original to scan again ?

Wal'

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu167/Bimboalbum/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20Monica%20McMullins%20Computer/badge.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/user/Bimboalbum/media/Photobucket%20Desktop%20-%20Monica%20McMullins%20Computer/badge.jpg.html)

Wallaby
03-07-13, 16:52
Julie, this is probably a daft question, but can I improve it if I print off the copy I have, which I scanned on 600 & then scan that again on a higher setting ?

Wal'

Darksecretz
03-07-13, 17:06
if you can get hold of the person that has the original and ask them to scan it [600dpi+] and email it to you rather than fax it, then we can crop the image and possibly zoom in and ident the cap badge, I have just been through http://www.britisharmybadges.com/home.php but without a clearer picture it is very difficult to get the correct one.

I don't know very much about army uniforms etc.. but I did notice that he has the coloured bars above his left breast pocket.. does this denote he was an officer??

Darksecretz
03-07-13, 17:07
Julie, this is probably a daft question, but can I improve it if I print off the copy I have, which I scanned on 600 & then scan that again on a higher setting ?

Wal'

you might lose some sort of important detail though if you do that.. :(

Darksecretz
03-07-13, 17:11
just had a fiddle.. though it is clearer, still not enough I don't think

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p117/Darksecretz_2006/Wallaby_zpsf106c36c.jpg (http://s126.photobucket.com/user/Darksecretz_2006/media/Wallaby_zpsf106c36c.jpg.html)

Darksecretz
03-07-13, 17:23
Wal,

check this out... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army_uniform_and_equipment_in_World_War_I

goto the uniform bit and look at the picture on the right... read the caption

?

Darksecretz
03-07-13, 17:46
this explains about the Lanyard http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30101215

and I see that he is wearing 'Putties' too..

Darksecretz
03-07-13, 17:49
ooh


The question of which shoulder bore the lanyard depends on the date. There is no certainty about this, but the change from the left shoulder to the right probably took place at about the time of the Great War, when a bandolier was introduced, because it was worn over the left shoulder. But there are some who insist that 1924 was the date of change, when sloping of rifles over the left shoulder would soil the white lanyard.
Eventually in 1933, the end of the lanyard was simply tucked into the breast pocket without the jack-knife, though many will remember that it was often kept in place with the soldier’s pay book! On the demise of ‘Battle Dress’, the lanyard disappeared for a short time, but returned as part of the dress of the Royal Regiment of Artillery in 1973.

source: http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090502123052AAhacHy

Wallaby
04-07-13, 10:49
Wal,

check this out... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army_uniform_and_equipment_in_World_War_I

goto the uniform bit and look at the picture on the right... read the caption

?



Hi Julie, thanks for all this help & also for moving my thread... I'm lost when I wonder away from the Sensitive Research area lol!

The uniform does seem to be British & it has been said on Great War Forum & also on FTF last year that he could be mounted or cyclist. What you have found does seem to indicate Artillery.
The tiny glimpse of one or two medals also indicates that he has already been to the front.

I have not seen this soft type of cap before, British Army caps seem to be stiff, but altho this cap has a stiff brim/peak, the top of the cap is soft (I mean soft as in floppy or unstructured) I've not found this soft type of cap.

The badge does appear to be a star, but other so-called experts in military uniforms have suggested it could be a Canadian uniform. The outline of the badge is similar to the Canadian Maple Leaf badge.

I'll talk to my cousin & ask her to send me the original photo. She's 83/4 & doesn't have a scanner. If she is worried about sending it thru the mail I'll go over to Wales next week.

To pinpoint his regiment will help us to narrow down his death as he could be - Abraham Friedman/Freedman/Freeman or might have changed his first name. Or he could be Abraham Cohen & might have changed his first name. The fact that I have not found Abraham in any Liverpool school records could suggests that maybe Abraham left my grandfather's house after his mum died in 1911. So he's not necessarily a Liverpool soldier.


I appreciate this help


Wal'

Darksecretz
04-07-13, 16:30
Hi Julie, thanks for all this help & also for moving my thread... I'm lost when I wonder away from the Sensitive Research area lol!

The uniform does seem to be British & it has been said on Great War Forum & also on FTF last year that he could be mounted or cyclist. What you have found does seem to indicate Artillery.
The tiny glimpse of one or two medals also indicates that he has already been to the front.

I have not seen this soft type of cap before, British Army caps seem to be stiff, but altho this cap has a stiff brim/peak, the top of the cap is soft (I mean soft as in floppy or unstructured) I've not found this soft type of cap.

The badge does appear to be a star, but other so-called experts in military uniforms have suggested it could be a Canadian uniform. The outline of the badge is similar to the Canadian Maple Leaf badge.

I'll talk to my cousin & ask her to send me the original photo. She's 83/4 & doesn't have a scanner. If she is worried about sending it thru the mail I'll go over to Wales next week.

To pinpoint his regiment will help us to narrow down his death as he could be - Abraham Friedman/Freedman/Freeman or might have changed his first name. Or he could be Abraham Cohen & might have changed his first name. The fact that I have not found Abraham in any Liverpool school records could suggests that maybe Abraham left my grandfather's house after his mum died in 1911. So he's not necessarily a Liverpool soldier.


I appreciate this help


Wal'


I know what you mean Wal, look here, http://forums.canadiancontent.net/history/87698-come-over-fritz-wwi-british.html and scroll down and look at his hat! if you can track him and see what reg't he was in then it may well be the break you are looking for :smilee:

there is also an identical cap here too: http://lostmedalsaustralia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/cyril-davy-alcock-update.html and on his records it states that he was in the S/Staffs 2nd Btn so the hat would indicate a UK WWI Army uniform

Wallaby
05-07-13, 17:31
I know what you mean Wal, look here, http://forums.canadiancontent.net/history/87698-come-over-fritz-wwi-british.html and scroll down and look at his hat! if you can track him and see what reg't he was in then it may well be the break you are looking for :smilee:

there is also an identical cap here too: http://lostmedalsaustralia.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/cyril-davy-alcock-update.html and on his records it states that he was in the S/Staffs 2nd Btn so the hat would indicate a UK WWI Army uniform


This is the first time I've seen this soft cap, so it could still be a British Army uniform. I'll try & get the original photo & come back to you.

Thanks Julie

Darksecretz
06-07-13, 08:29
that's ok Wal,

it was bugging me too cos I have never seen one either!!.. :smilee:

PeteW1959
15-07-13, 09:17
Does this help?

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2qt2YElN_twC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=leather+pouch+bandolier&source=bl&ots=gZw47m6d5B&sig=j7Z6iKM2zmgaexH1kpDupx7XXf8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hK7jUaSSEaGw0QW_5YAQ&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBDgU#v=onepage&q=leather%20pouch%20bandolier&f=false

"As a regulation equipment the 1903 Bandolier set would only be in service for 5 years before being replaced by the 1908 pattern web equipment, but it continued in second-line service for many years, and saw active service in Gallipoli in 1915. The bandolier itself remained in service with mounted troops for nearly 40 years...."

PeteW1959
15-07-13, 09:23
... and is this the cap?

http://khaki-on-campaign.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=149882952

Seems it is the "Gor Blimey" cap, or trench cap. It was designed to be folded into a pocket when a tin helmet was needed.

Wallaby
15-07-13, 10:56
... and is this the cap?

http://khaki-on-campaign.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=149882952

Seems it is the "Gor Blimey" cap, or trench cap. It was designed to be folded into a pocket when a tin helmet was needed.



Yes! This could be the cap, thanks for this Pete!1959. ;)


I just popped in to copy this info from my Hospital Records thread. I won;t be able to get over to Wales to see my cousin & borrow the original photo for a couple of weeks. Meanwhile this is from a discussion on my HR thread, which might help to narrow down his battalion.


Wal'

CC

OC, I think you're right in as far as there may have been many young men who slipped thru the net & maybe non-nationals were amongst them, but when researching this I've found that the 1916 Military Service Act excluded citizens of allies and, as you know, Russia was an ally to Britain.

However, an agreement was later reached between Britain and Russia to enlist Russians of military age into the British Army, since it was deemed too difficult to deport them because of immigrant opposition and shipping difficulties. The Russian aliens were given the option of going back to Russia, which was near impossible, so nearly all enlisted into the British Army. But whether they were just filtered into any battalion or grouped into certain battalions is not clear.

I've found that there were five Jewish battalions, the 39th Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers was mostly made up of Russian immigrants. But how strict the army was into grouping Russian immigrants is, as I said, still unclear.

We know that all my father's siblings, apart from Abraham, were born in England. We know that Hyman was in the Merchant Navy & was shipwrecked & captured twice, in both WW1 & WW2. We know that Dal failed the medical & so joined the Home Guard & my dad was a Fireman during WW2 & was too young to be in WW1. J's dad Teri/Edward was in France in WW2 & was also too young to be in WW1. We don't know if Elias was in the war. He was born in 1898 & died in 1921 of Kidney Failure. I've not found any service records for Elias/Eli. Likewise, Isaac/Jack. So maybe it was possible that Abraham slipped thru the net as it seems unlikely that he volunteered to fight in the Russian Army, altho I first thought that perhaps he had family in Russia & wanted to go back after him mum died. But that seems unlikely, as he was about 5 when he came here. So maybe he was in one of the Jewish Battalions.




This info below is from the National Archives website...



In October 1917 Russia withdrew from the First World War. One consequence of this withdrawal that you may not be aware of is that Russian nationals living in Britain suddenly became eligible to serve in the British Army. Throughout 1915 there had been what was referred to as the ‘Conscription Crisis’. Too few men were enlisting in the forces to meet the needs of the industrial, mechanical nature of the First World War. In January of 1916 conscription was brought into force to meet the demand for men.

On 14 April 1916 the Home Secretary, Herbert Samuel, sought an amendment to Section 95 of the Army Act which imposed limitations on the enlistment of foreigners into the Army. He was hoping to encourage more aliens to join the British forces, or at least the territorial force. It was decided that foreign nationals who wished to join the British forces could do so as long as no more than 2% of the fighting force was made up of aliens.

The exception to this rule related to nationals of Allied countries. There was an agreement in place that all French, Belgian and Russian subjects living in the UK who desired to fight in the War should be compelled to return to their own country to join their respective armies. Since Russia was no longer a belligerent after October 1917 the government felt that this agreement no longer applied. Mr Samuel especially considered it unfair that Russian shopkeepers should remain exempt from service, profiting from the absence of British shopkeepers who were serving in the Army.


At this time, aliens living in the UK already had to register their personal details with the police as a consequence of the 1914 Aliens Registration Act, a process which was threatening to overwhelm the resources of an already stretched police force. It was decided that any alien who enlisted to serve in the forces and who ‘render good service in the British Army’ would be excused from paying the fee for naturalisation, effectively ‘fast tracking’ their application for naturalisation and offering an incentive to those thinking of joining up.

Where this information becomes useful is that each of these military men who became naturalised has a case file here at The National Archives. These case files (in record series HO 144, searchable by name via Discovery, our catalogue (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details?Uri=C9008)) will give you detail of their individual service. An example is Samuel Ostroi (whose medal roll entry is above) He has no service record surviving, however his naturalisation case file tells us his regiment, 8th Battalion, Labour Corps, and dates of service, 18 April 1918 until a medical discharge on 19 November 1919.

Of course, as much as Russian nationals were obliged to serve under the Military Service Act, they were equally entitled to appeal their conscription. The records of the Middlesex Appeals tribunal in record series MH 47 contain a great many records of Russian subjects who had either refused to return to Russia therefore forfeiting any right to protection from conscription or those who had commercial, familial or business obligations which would necessitate an exemption from service. We are currently digitising these files ready for release on our website later this year. The case papers provide a great deal of information about these men, their businesses and their families.

An example of a Russian attempting to gain an exemption is Adolphe Feitelson from Kovna (Kaunas, Lithuania) who was claiming exemption on business grounds, ill health and that he was supporting a wife and young child, his mother and two sisters. His application was refused and Adolphe was only granted a temporary exemption until 28 February 1918. Looking online, again there is no indication of service – not even a medal record in this instance. In an effort to discover whether or not Adolphe saw any service we can examine his naturalisation case file for details.


This file explains that Adolphe presented himself for service but was not required. Instead, he saw out his time undertaking work of national importance manufacturing gloves to be used by members of the Air Force and workers in the munitions industry. Other examples of Russian men who appealed conscription and who also have naturalisation records include Richard Raphael, a tobacconist who, we learn from his case file, also saw out the war undertaking work of national importance with Waring & Gillow assembling aircraft. further example is Woolf Okin who claimed, as a boot maker, to be in a reserved occupation. Mr Okin also suffered from ill health and had four children which resulted in receiving a rolling temporary exemption, the last of which was due to expire on 27 December 1918


Wal'