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amck37
01-06-13, 10:56
I am happy with my ancester Esther Chandler, born 1851, Clapham in Wandsworth. She married John Shadrack McCarthy in 1869 and they had Mary Ann Amelia McCarthy in 1875.

It's Esther's mother I am having problems with locating. As far as I can track, Esther's father is William Chandler and I think her mother was Mary Kabney.
...but I also have another birth cert for a Mary Ann Chandler with Wllm as father with mother as Catherine Caveney. As far as I know Esther had two brothers.

Kabney and Caveney are similar names. Is Mary Ann Esther's sister? (born 1849)
I have think both Wllm and Mary Kabney were born in Bethnal Green around 1823-26.

Both birth certs I have for Esther's birth are copies.

It's driving me potty:question: - any assistance much appreciated.

Amanda x

Macbev
01-06-13, 12:21
How certain are you that William Chandler's wife was Mary Kabney?

The 1861 census places Esther with brothers William, b. 1847 and Henry b. 1856, all Bethnal Green. William and Mary, their parents are b. 1823,also Bethnal Green. For all children, William is listed as a 'carman.'

The only pre 1847 William/ Mary marriage I found where William has that occupation was in 5 July 1841, William residing Weatherhead Gardens, to Mary Ann Hill, residing Nova Scotia Gardens. I don't know my London geography, so don't know if that fits with Bethnal Green.

I looked for William Chandler b. abt 1823 Bethnal Green on the 1841 census and found him living at 17 Weatherhead Gardens with James Chandler, 65, hawker and Elizabeth Chandler, 55 (both born out of county). Mary Hill, (18?) was living with family in Nova Scotia Gardens with family... John, 40, tobacconist,Mary, 40, John, 20, Samuel, 14, William, 12, Henry, 10, Hannah, 8, Susan,5, James,1.

Of course, I could very well be completely off track, so don't be too polite about telling me to butt out :D

Chrissie Smiff
01-06-13, 12:27
Can you tell us please Amanda whether you got the name Mary Kabney from the birth cert and if not, where did you get it from. I can't find a marrage between a William Chandler and a Kabney or a Caveney in London/Middlesex. There are a few possible William Chandler marriages but the one that jumped out as a carman is the link below to a Mary Ann Hill. I don't know London areas well though but it was in Hackney. However, that Mary Ann Hill is living on Hackney Road Bethnal Green in 1841.

The marriage above -
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_197914-00186&fn=William&ln=Chandler&st=r&ssrc=&pid=3380956

Mary Ann Hill in 1841 (Bottom of page left hand side) -
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8978&iid=MDXHO107_693_693-0279&fn=Mary&ln=Hill&st=r&ssrc=&pid=7622445

Chrissie Smiff
01-06-13, 12:29
Snap Bev :) It just took me longer to get my reply finished because hubby keeps asking what's for lunch. My 'u' is playing up too, so I have to keep going over everything and pressing the u extra hard lol.

Chrissie Smiff
01-06-13, 12:34
p.s. I noticed that she seems to have fibbed about her fathers occupation as a Tobacco cutter too and in 1851 she is a tobacco stripper. So she probably got the idea from knowing people in a tobacco factory?

Macbev
01-06-13, 12:48
These hubbies, Chrissie :rotfl:....mine keeps hanging around anxiously wondering if I am going to feed him dinner :D

Macbev
01-06-13, 12:49
p.s. I noticed that she seems to have fibbed about her fathers occupation as a Tobacco cutter too and in 1851 she is a tobacco stripper. So she probably got the idea from knowing people in a tobacco factory?Not necessarily...if I have the right gal, Dad was a tobacconist in 1841

Macbev
01-06-13, 13:07
Actually, I think the fathers seem to have swapped trades by the time the children married....William's dad James is listed as a tobacco cutter, while Mary's father has become a carman :question:

Chrissie Smiff
01-06-13, 13:07
Oops yes, I am getting my facts mixed. Seems odd though as on the marriage cert it gives her father as Carman and his as tobacco cutter. I wonder if they got them the wrong way round?

p.s. Off for lunch now:)

Macbev
01-06-13, 18:23
Might have to scrub all the above brilliant research.....that Esther (or rather Hester) is still hanging out with William , Mary and bros William and Henry in 1871. Drat.....back to the wedding for another look :(Found another family with parents William and Mary, sons William and John...and Esther still there. more thinking required here

Umm....according to the London Baptisms , John and Esther had other children , all baptised as a job lot 4 Aug 1884
1. William, 6 yrs old
2. Mary Ann Amelia, 9 yrs
3. Ann Elizabeth, 5 yrs
4. Eonan? (hard to read) 3 yrs

amck37
01-06-13, 18:34
Thank you all for your contributions.

Bev and Chrissie - I don't have the original birth cert of Esther Chandler, a copy ordered in 1989.
Cert registered Clapham, Wandsworth.
Birth 20.4.1851 Esther, father William, mother's name Mary Chandler formerly Kabney. Williams occupation tinman. Informant, Mary Chandler 4 ***** Cottages, North St, Clapham.

If nothing works out with this, I may indeed have got Esthers parentage wrong and have to go back again.

Thanks
Amanda

maudarby
01-06-13, 19:17
Hi
Have you found Ester & John Shadrack McCarthy in 1871? Can't seem to find them, surname possibly wrongly transcribed.
Moggie

Macbev
02-06-13, 04:56
Hah....found them in 1881...name 'Macarty' http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&h=15136334&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=1623

and 1891, name transcribed 'McCarley'
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1891&h=20080517&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=7572

John Shedrick McCarty died Q2 1891, Bethnal Green

John Sheldrake McCarthy born Q4 1850
RD:St Luke
London

'Ettie' was with the last born (Samuel, 1888) when she enrolled him at school) and in 1901

maudarby
02-06-13, 14:02
How certain are you that William Chandler's wife was Mary Kabney?

The 1861 census places Esther with brothers William, b. 1847 and Henry b. 1856, all Bethnal Green. William and Mary, their parents are b. 1823,also Bethnal Green. For all children, William is listed as a 'carman.'

The only pre 1847 William/ Mary marriage I found where William has that occupation was in 5 July 1841, William residing Weatherhead Gardens, to Mary Ann Hill, residing Nova Scotia Gardens. I don't know my London geography, so don't know if that fits with Bethnal Green.

I looked for William Chandler b. abt 1823 Bethnal Green on the 1841 census and found him living at 17 Weatherhead Gardens with James Chandler, 65, hawker and Elizabeth Chandler, 55 (both born out of county). Mary Hill, (18?) was living with family in Nova Scotia Gardens with family... John, 40, tobacconist,Mary, 40, John, 20, Samuel, 14, William, 12, Henry, 10, Hannah, 8, Susan,5, James,1.

Of course, I could very well be completely off track, so don't be too polite about telling me to butt out :D
Hi
Did you notice that one of the witnesses at Esther & John's marriage was a Mary Hill?
This could be her grandmother if Macbev is right about Esther's parents marriage.
Have checked & Mary Hill was still alive in 1871.
Moggie