Stuck: Search for M records of Thomas Henry Cousins and Margaret Jane

[currie1972]

I have found a 1911 Census record that fits with my grandfather Fredrick George Cousins, Ynysybwl (llanwonno on record which would be right for ynysybwl). The father is Thomas Henry Cousins 1877 (merthyr tydfil) and mother Margaret Jane 1880 (Treherbert) but I cannot find a marriage that fits, would have been abt 1897.
I was thinking of ordering a marriage cert because I'm having trouble tracing any further back, but obviously cannot order without a marriage record. Is there any point in ordering a birth cert for my gramp, or is there any other advice you can offer.
Thank you.

[Darksecretz]

Hi Currie,

do you have a link to the 1911 cens at all?

[Elaine ..Spain]

Think it's this one Julie

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=fred*&gsln=cousins&sx=&f2=&f3=&f8=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&f18=&f19=&f24=&f21=&f22=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f16=&f9=&f23=&gskw=llanwonno&prox=1&db=1911wales&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=1&h=482891&recoff=

[Elaine ..Spain]

What about this one:

Marriages Mar 1897 (freeBMD)
ADAMS Henry John
COZENS Thomas Henry
Davies Mary Ann
King Margaret Jane
Pontypridd 11a 610

[Darksecretz]

What about this one:

Marriages Mar 1897 (freeBMD)
ADAMS Henry John
COZENS Thomas Henry
Davies Mary Ann
King Margaret Jane
Pontypridd 11a 610

that looks good to me Elaine.... but if you say Cousins/Cozens it does sound the same.. which is pretty much how it must have happened [esp if they were not sure how to spell it anyway]

[Olde Crone Holden]

If you ordered your grandfather's birth cert it would tell you his mother's maiden name, but you would still have to get his parents' marriage cert anyway, to get the names of their fathers

OC

[currie1972]

Thank you both very much. I was totally stuck, didn't think of mis spellings. That does look promising. Thank you both again

[Darksecretz]

no worries, just hope that it helps with the next stage of your research

[currie1972]

Hi, thought I would update. Finally got around to ordering cert and I've got Margaret Kings side ok. Found out that Thomas Henry's Dad was Caleb Cozens. I was surprised to find the spelling on certificate to be Cozens, I thought it might have been an error on the Marriage record. Still my life has got more confusing, partly due to spellings. I found a birth record for Caleb Cozens born in Pembroke. It ties in with some census records for T H living with what seems to be his mum Mary Ann and gran Rebecca in Pembroke (census records have T H born in Merthyr). However couldn't find any more record of Caleb until I searched Cousins and found 1871 & 1861 census records of a Caleb Cousins and mother Rebecca (although ages on 1871 record are a couple of years out) in Pembroke. Quite touchingly the 1861 record has a Peter Founds age 10 living with them, found in Pembroke, I assume an orphan taken in. Looking at the timeline it seems around 1850's the name is Cozens, then Cousins 1861, back to Cozens 1891 and by 1901 was Cousins again. Is this something that people did or am I simply confusing two families. It also seems like Caleb disappeared from Thomas's childhood, dead, divorced??? also no dad for Caleb found. Currently thinking a B Cert for Thomas Henry (to check his mums name) or B Cert for Caleb (to check both parents). I hope my info is all a little more clear than mud to you Any input most welcome.

[Darksecretz]

Hi Currie,

what you have to remember back then is that most people were illiterate, so they had to go by how names 'sounded' so cousins would sound the same as cozens, if you see what I mean.

I am in the middle of cooking at the moment, but, when I have done I will come back and see what I can find. :smilee:

[Darksecretz]

ok have had a bit of a shuftie:

1841: I know that this doesn't give relationships BUT it is likely that this is Rebecca and her husband/family. [also note that there is a MARY COUSENS next door that could potentially be his mother]

1841: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...&rhSource=8768

1851: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...1wales&indiv=1

1861: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...try&h=15129691

1871: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...=try&h=7263691

1881: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...&rhSource=8768

1891: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...&rhSource=8861

and last but not least Rebeccas death

Name: Rebecca Cozens
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1893
Age at Death: 78
Registration District: Haverfordwest
Inferred County: Pembrokeshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 665

[Darksecretz]

oooh you might be in luck!!

MARRIAGE:

Name: John Cozens
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1837
Registration District: Haverfordwest
Inferred County: Pembrokeshire
Volume Number: 26
Page Number: 741

Names:

Mary Beddor
John Cozens
Mary Eliot
Ann Harries
John Rees
Rebecca Rogers

[Darksecretz]

there are 3 John COZENS deaths in Haverford dist [the 1851 Census was taken 30th March 1851, which is the last sighting of him]

Jul 1851
Oct 1856
Apr 1857

as Rebeccas last child on the 1861 census was Caleb, aged 5 so has a birth of about 1857

yet his birth says otherwise:

Name: Caleb Cozens
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1853
Registration District: Haverfordwest
Inferred County: Pembrokeshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 598

I would get his birth cert to see if it says father dead or not..

[Olde Crone Holden]

Julie

His BC is unlikely to state whether his father is dead or not. I think it's more likely that the transcriber of the 1861 census misread 8 for 5. Does he appear in 1871?

OC

[kylejustin]

only one of those deaths is showing up in the fmp burials for wales:

john cozens- st issell's, pembrokeshire, 21 nov 1856, 76, b.1780

[kylejustin]

caleb cozens ch.7 feb 1864, johnston, pembroke. parents: john a labourer and rebecca of pope hill.

[kylejustin]

23 dec 1837, johnston
john cozens, full age, bachelor, collier of pope hill. f- william cozens, collier
rebecca rogers, full age, spinster of pope hill. f- john rogers, collier
both made their mark, in the presence of thomas phillips and phillip phelps.

[currie1972]

Hi, thanks for offering to have a look. What ive found is just on census records at the moment. Thomas Henry as a child is living with Rebecca (gran) and Mary Ann cousins who is down as daughter rather than daughter in law, I assumed Mary as his mother but maybe she's just an aunt. Celeb seems to have married Jane Bowden 1875, the year Thomas was born. Also have records of celeb as a child living with mother Rebecca and Peter founds (orphan). Also have a caleb cousins dying in Australia 1927, unfortunately I don't have access to world records. My mother says my sister is going to fetch cousins records to her for me, so I'm hanging fire on ordering certificates until I see what she has but I'm very tempted to get Caleb's and Thomas's b Certs.

[kylejustin]

you should have thomas' birth. that will give both parents names. then get their marriage. and then their births.

[Olde Crone Holden]

kylejustin

Your post above #16 - should the year read 1854, please?

OC