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Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 14:41
Help! :)

I have a very muddled 1851 census which shows the following (my corrections of the information is in red!)

James Goulding c1807 Belstone, Staffordshire - occ. boilermaker. His name is Francis Goulding - it may be Francis James Goulding?
Jamia Goulding c1811 not known - Wife - her name is Ann Goulding. No idea where the Jamia comes in!
Joseph Goulding c1829 Bilstone, Staffordshire
Francis Goulding c1839 Bilstone, Staffordshire
John Goulding c1842 Deptford, Kent
Ellen Freeman c1847 Poplar, Middlesex
Ivonnah Freeman c1842 Blackwell, Middlesex - should be Johanna Freeman
Jane Freeman c1845 Blackwell, Middlesex - should be Jane Goulding
Ann Freeman c1848 Blackwell, Middlesex - should be Ann Goulding
Sarah Freeman c1849 Poplar, Middlesex - should be Sarah Goulding

The children Joseph, Francis and John Goulding are the sons of Francis Goulding and his first wife Mary.
Ellen and Johanna Freeman are the daughers of Ann Goulding (formerly Freeman) and her first husband William.
Jane, Ann and Sarah are the children of Francis Goulding and wife Ann Goulding.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1851&indiv=try&h=579388
HO107; Piece: 1555; Folio: 320; Page: 5

I am struggling to find any further census information for the parents Francis (? aka James) and Ann, neither can I find possible death dates for them.

Can anyone see anything?

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 14:46
.. and I should have said, there is often a name variation between GOULDING AND GOLDING ... just to confuse things a little more! :)

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 14:51
To save you looking:

1861 census for Sarah, is I think this one
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1861&indiv=try&h=5948034

1861 census for Jane is probably this one
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1861&indiv=try&h=5974189

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 15:23
cannot find them in 1861 yet ? but there is a death for a Ann Golding Mar 1859 1c 430 in Poplar

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 15:37
cannot find them in 1861 yet ? but there is a death for a Ann Golding Mar 1859 1c 430 in Poplar

Umm, that's an interesting one Val. I had missed that.

I have just found 4 baptisms for some Goulding children - parents Francis and Ann, so the same family: (LMA Ancestry PRs) for Sarah (1849), Elizabeth (1852), Emma (1854) and Richard (1857)
- all baptised on the same day - 26th May 1859 All Saints Poplar.

If the mother (Ann) had died in the 1st quarter of 1859, maybe the children needed to be baptised for "care" reasons, e.g. children's home, schooling etc.

Need to see if I can find Elizabeth, Emma or Richard in 1861!

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 15:39
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/MDXRG9_305_309-0360/5984578?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fnew%3d1%26gsfn%3dfrancis%26gsln%3d golding%26rank%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26mswpn__ftp%3dpoplar%2bengland%26sbo%3d0%26pcat %3dROOT_CATEGORY%26h%3d5984578%26db%3duki1861%26in div%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
what about this?

Yes, that looks right for the son Joseph Goulding (parents Francis & Mary).

I am more interested in the parents Francis Goulding b c1807 and his second wife Ann.

Have to say the death you have found for Ann Golding looks a good bet. I can see a certificate order being sent off some time soon!

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 15:47
ooh I deleted that link as suddenly realised it was the son and not the father, Richard Emma and Elizabeth are proving hard to find .

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 15:49
.... Richard Emma and Elizabeth are proving hard to find .
Tell me about it!
I thought I would sit down and take a look at the new Surrey PRs which came on to Ancestry this morning. Somehow got sidetracked on to this family and have been stuck ever since! :D

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 15:51
what do you think of this death for Francis
James Golding born abt 1808
Dudley Staffs
Dec 1874 6c 77 aged 66

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 16:05
might be Richard in 1881 ? not found him earlier yet
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LNDRG11_270_276-1044/14380458?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fnew%3d1%26gsfn%3drichard%26gsln%3d golding%26rank%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26msbdy%3d1858%26sbo%3d1%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY% 26h%3d14380458%26db%3duki1881%26indiv%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 16:05
It's a possible. :)
I can't see another James Golding of about the right age in Staffs at the time.
If it is him, where was he hiding in 1861 and 1871?

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 16:07
could be Richards Marriage ?http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_197824-00299/3312541?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fnew%3d1%26gsfn%3drichard%26gsln%3d golding%26rank%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26msbdy%3d1858%26sbo%3d1%26pcat%3dBMD_MARRIAGE%2 6h%3d3312541%26recoff%3d9%2b10%2b32%26db%3dLMAmarr iages%26indiv%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 16:16
Yep, could be! :)

It's the lack of census info which is the problem. :(

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 16:19
Emmas marriage
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_199001-00004/7827687?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26ms T%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3demma%26gsln%3dgolding%26msbdy%3d1855%26 msbpn__ftp%3dpoplar%26msfng0%3dfrancis%26cpxt%3d1% 26uidh%3duld%26msbdp%3d2%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3dBMD_MA RRIAGE%26h%3d7827687%26recoff%3d8%2b9%2b29%2b30%26 db%3dLMAmarriages%26indiv%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 16:23
Yes, I think that's a definite! Thanks.

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 16:32
very odd cannot find any of them in 1861 or 1871 ? I noticed Emma says Fathers name Francis and she does not say deceased?

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 16:40
I am sure that is the right marriage for my Emma - father's name and occupation both fit.

They have obviously just done a disappearing act in 1861 and 1871. :)

Thanks for your help Val - much appreciated. This lot were driving me round the bend ...well they still are but not quite as bad as when I started!

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 18:44
not finished yet had to cook will have another look

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 19:21
seems Emma married again in 1902 to a Benjamin William Turton
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=lmamarriages&h=5576393&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t49189401_p20200255460_kpidz0q3d2020025546 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 19:28
Thanks Val.

Found marriages also for Richard in 1877
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&f8=&f10=&sx=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&rg_f51__date=&rs_f51__date=0&f99=&f53=&f23=fran*&f24=g*lding&f18=&f19=&f28=&f29=&gskw=&prox=1&db=lmamarriages&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=15&h=3251166&recoff=27+28

and Jane in 1865
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&f8=&f10=&sx=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&rg_f51__date=&rs_f51__date=0&f99=&f53=&f23=fran*&f24=g*lding&f18=&f19=&f28=&f29=&gskw=&prox=1&db=lmamarriages&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=13&h=7104807&recoff=27+28

and Elizabeth in 1871
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&f8=&f10=&sx=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&rg_f51__date=&rs_f51__date=0&f99=&f53=&f23=fran*&f24=g*lding&f18=&f19=&f28=&f29=&gskw=&prox=1&db=lmamarriages&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=14&h=6573754&recoff=27+28

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 19:37
there is a person on ancestry asking for info on Richards Parents.

ooer Richard in 1871 living with his sister Jane

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LNDRG10_572_574-0591/12356614?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1871%26h%3d12356614%26ti%3 d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t254625 77_p13334057275_kpidz0q3d13334057275z0q26pgz0q3d32 768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t25462577_p13334057275_kpidz0q3d1333405727 5z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 19:41
there is a person on ancestry asking for info on Richards Parents.

Is that on a public tree. I saw someone asking about Emma and have sent her a message. Maybe she has the same message against all the children, I didn't check.
Off to take a look!




ooer Richard in 1871 living with his sister Jane
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LNDRG10_572_574-0591/12356614?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1871%26h%3d12356614%26ti%3 d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t254625 77_p13334057275_kpidz0q3d13334057275z0q26pgz0q3d32 768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t25462577_p13334057275_kpidz0q3d1333405727 5z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Thanks. It's all coming together now ... except for 1861 ... and what happened to Francis Goulding. ;D

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 19:42
This was the query I saw ... re mother of Emma.
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/49189401/person/20200255460

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 19:44
wonder if they were in a workhouse ?

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 19:49
That's what I think. I think I need to go through everything now and see where the gaps are. I know we found two of the children in 1861 (Sarah and Jane) so need to search for some of the others.
I've tried the Poor Law records on Ancestry but some of the Poplar ones don't start until the 1870s or later so not much help at the moment.
I'll order the death certificate for Ann Golding that you found - fingers crossed it's the right one! I'll let you know. :)

Val wish Id never started
29-05-13, 20:38
what about this one for Emma
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/MDXRG9_237_241-0215/5532420?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3demma %26gsln%3dgoulding%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18%3 dFemale%26f12__n%3dInmate%26rg_81004011__date%3d18 54%26rs_81004011__date%3d2%26f27%3dengland%26f14%3 d%26f15%3d%26_8000C002%3d%26_80008002%3d%26_800180 02%3d%26f7%3d%26f8%3d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1 %26db%3duki1861%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dan gs-d%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d15%26h%3d5532420%26recoff%3d% 26fsk%3dBEC6-43-M4IgAAiPwBj1LQ-61-%26bsk%3d%26pgoff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Elaine ..Spain
29-05-13, 21:11
what about this one for Emma
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/MDXRG9_237_241-0215/5532420?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3demma %26gsln%3dgoulding%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18%3 dFemale%26f12__n%3dInmate%26rg_81004011__date%3d18 54%26rs_81004011__date%3d2%26f27%3dengland%26f14%3 d%26f15%3d%26_8000C002%3d%26_80008002%3d%26_800180 02%3d%26f7%3d%26f8%3d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1 %26db%3duki1861%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dan gs-d%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d15%26h%3d5532420%26recoff%3d% 26fsk%3dBEC6-43-M4IgAAiPwBj1LQ-61-%26bsk%3d%26pgoff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Could be .. will add it to my list of possibles! :)

Val wish Id never started
30-05-13, 19:39
wonder if this is Johannas death
Joanna Goulding Mar 1855 Brentford Middlesex 3a 40

Val wish Id never started
30-05-13, 19:45
could be Ellen Freeman
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1590/31251_A006120-00263/639579?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3delle n%26gsln%3dfreeman%26sx%3d%26_82004040%3d%26rg_810 04041__date%3d%26rs_81004041__date%3d0%26gskw%3d%2 6prox%3d1%26db%3dcriminalregisters%26ti%3d5538%26t i.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26pcat%3d36%26fh%3d3%26h%3d639579%26recoff%3d8%2 b9&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Val wish Id never started
30-05-13, 19:50
maybe John in 1861
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/KENRG9_495_498-0146/7180514?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3d%26g sln%3d%26sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18%3d%26 f12__n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d%26rs_81004011__da te%3d0%26f27%3d%26f14%3d%26f15%3d%26_8000C002%3d%2 6_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3d496%26f8%3d6%2 6f9%3d6%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1861%26ti%3 d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d4%26h%3d7180514%26recoff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Elaine ..Spain
30-05-13, 21:15
Thanks Val. I'll take a look at them.