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View Full Version : Any connection to USA citizens BARKER Frank W c.1891, Florence E c.1894, Ellen c.1896



NicWhiteley
22-05-13, 14:35
Desperately searching for any info on my Grandmothers family.


Cannot find any birth records or immigration/transport records


Shown in 1901 Cencus in England as USA citizens
Miriam Barker c.1873 Married Housekeeper (maiden name unknown)
Frank W Barker c.1891 Son
Florence E Barker c.1894 Daughter (my Grandmother)
Ellen c.1896 Daughter


Miriam's Husband Frederick Barker c.1870
Listed in 1917 in Florence's 1st Marriage Cert as Deceased Ship Steward
& in 2nd marriage as Merchant Seaman
Nationality unknown


Cannot find any other records in England or USA of Frederick, Miriam or son Frank.


No further records of Florence until the birth of her son Cecil in 1915 (father unknown)She did recall coming to England on a ship, when she was very small.


No further records of Ellen until much later in life, when she then seems to be called Helen.


HELP!!!! Any suggestions or help VERY gratefully received.

AntonyM
22-05-13, 15:33
There is a Helen Barker age 14 in a childrens home/workhouse in Morpeth in 1911, born "Baltimore USA British Parentage", which is only about 20 miles from South Shields where they are living in 1901 - have you investigated that entry ?

Elaine
22-05-13, 23:12
1901 ref

1901 Census
BARKER, Ellen
SOUTH SHIELDS, Durham
RG13 piece 4733 folio 61 page 17

Elaine
22-05-13, 23:16
Is the E Ernesty for Florence's middle name?

NicWhiteley
23-05-13, 10:35
Hi Antony, yes i have that in my records. The info more or less fits, if this is Ellen then we can only assume Mother - Miriam has passed. Also as there's no further record of Brother - Frank perhaps he has too. But can't find any death records.

NicWhiteley
23-05-13, 10:39
Hi Antony, yes i have that in my records. The info more or less fits, if this is Ellen then we can only assume Mother - Miriam has passed. Also as there's no further record of Brother - Frank perhaps he has too. But can't find any death records.
Hi Elaine, got the cencus 1901, that's the only record i do have of them all. E is for Emily.
Would love to find Frederick - Father but very little info to narrow it down. There's not even a passenger record of them travelling from USA to here......wondering if it's poss they travelled on a ship he was working on!!

Darksecretz
24-05-13, 11:29
found this: marriage, though I am unable to match up the names to any in the census!...

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&ssrc=pt_t56322661_p32007978296_kpidz0q3d3200797829 6z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid_m1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=mir**&gsln=*arker&msbdy=1873&msbpn__ftp=Durham%2c+England&msbpn=5263&msbpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5263%7c0%7c0% 7c&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=11&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=1422300&recoff=3+4&db=FreeBMDMarriage&indiv=1

Name: Miriam Barker
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1904
Registration District: South Shields
Inferred County: Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 1296

Darksecretz
24-05-13, 11:40
found this: marriage, though I am unable to match up the names to any in the census!...

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&ssrc=pt_t56322661_p32007978296_kpidz0q3d3200797829 6z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid_m1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=mir**&gsln=*arker&msbdy=1873&msbpn__ftp=Durham%2c+England&msbpn=5263&msbpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5263%7c0%7c0% 7c&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=11&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=1422300&recoff=3+4&db=FreeBMDMarriage&indiv=1

Name: Miriam Barker
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1904
Registration District: South Shields
Inferred County: Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 1296

ahhhhh she might have married John Henry BECKWITH, I have found this..which ties in with Helen being in Morpeth..

DEATH
Name: Miriam Beckwith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1909
Age at Death: 36
Registration District: Morpeth
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 282

Darksecretz
24-05-13, 18:43
as this was bugging me I decided to have another go, and found this:

DEATH:

Name: Frank William Barker
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1901
Age at Death: 9
Registration District: South Shields
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 432

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=freebmddeath&rank=1&new=1&ssrc=pt_t56322661_p32007978296_kpidz0q3d3200797829 6z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid_m1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=frank&gsln=barker&msbdy=1891&msbpn__ftp=USA&msbpn=2&msbpn_PInfo=3-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c&cpxt=1&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=11&pcat=BMD_DEATH&fh=20&h=1639181&recoff=

if you are going to order these certs Nic, then if you don't already know, then order them direct from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

please do not order from Ancestry [as they charge extortionate prices + they get them from the GRO anyway!!] I think, though I haven't checked, the last time I looked they [Ancestry] were charging £23.00 for a £9.25 ish cert!!!

NicWhiteley
26-05-13, 06:54
Thankyou Julie, I'm on Ancestry & it's never given me those results when i've searched....weird!! That's a massive breakthought!! Brilliant!!!

Darksecretz
26-05-13, 08:18
Thankyou Julie, I'm on Ancestry & it's never given me those results when i've searched....weird!! That's a massive breakthought!! Brilliant!!!

if you do get the certs Nic, then do let us know what the results were please, as you say she is such an enigma, at least it might give an indication where in the USA she was living. [though I doubt it!]

I didn't look for the first husband, Fred?.. but meant to ask, how did you know that he worked on a ship? [daughters marriage cert/s?] and maybe the witness's on the certs can also offer some ideas where to look next.

which search do you use on Ancestry? new or old.. I use the new, even though they have re-jigged it again...but tend to find that less is more! it didn't bring anything up in the general search for Miriam re a marriage it wasn't until I clicked on the marriages index up to 1915 that I did look for S/Shields and then spotted this one. [likewise with the death for Frank]

sometimes it is a lot easier to do the main searching on FreeBMD, then cross ref it with Ancestry, I know they should be the same, but, sometimes they are not, [sometimes FreeBMD have entries that ancestry simply haven't got..] though I cannot understand why, as they use the same database!!.

NicWhiteley
28-05-13, 14:15
You are a mine of useful info Julie!! I didn't know any of that....i just do a straight forward search!! I obviously need to start searching out of the box.

I've ordered the certs, will let you know :)

Darksecretz
28-05-13, 14:28
You are a mine of useful info Julie!! I didn't know any of that....i just do a straight forward search!! I obviously need to start searching out of the box.

I've ordered the certs, will let you know :)

FAB Nic!! it'll be interesting to see what new info you find out! :smilee:

we all search in different ways, some add as much info as they know, others use minimal info, it's best though to begin with minimal, that way you can sift through, sometimes it's better to use wildcards.. so instead of Frederick you could use Fre*** that way if someone has transcribed the name wrong, it should show up. likewise with Barker.. you can search *arker that way it should pick up Barker & Parker... [sometimes B's & P's get muddled]

best thing though, if in doubt, [I]ask :smilee: we don't bite, and have all been there at some point :smilee:

NicWhiteley
29-05-13, 16:09
Great, thanks.....will keep you informed :)

Darksecretz
30-05-13, 09:24
Great, thanks.....will keep you informed :)

:good: :smilee:

NicWhiteley
03-06-13, 14:17
Hi Julie,

Got certs this morning, they all seem to check out!!

Frank William Barker died 10 June 1901 of Pneumonia, son of Frederick Robert Barker a Ship Steward (Merchant Service)
Informant M. Barker (Mother)

Miriam Barker age 32 Widow married John Henry Beckwith age 32 Bachelor (Coal Miner) on 27 Aug 1904
Brides father - Richard Parker Henderson, Master Mariner
Grooms father - William Beckwith (deceased) Coal Miner

Miriam Beckwith died 11 Jan 1909, age 36, of Cancer of Uterus.
Informant J.H Beckwith widower of deceased

So from that we've gained Fredericks middle name 'Robert' & Miriams fathers name Richard Parker Henderson, Master Mariner.
I've not had much time yet, but have had a quick look, not found anything yet.

Nicola :)

Darksecretz
03-06-13, 14:58
thats FAB news Nic, now we/you can get somewhere hopefully!! in tracking Miriam Henderson :) don't you just love it when a plan comes together!! :)

Darksecretz
03-06-13, 15:10
couldn't resist!!

1880 USA Census: BALTIMORE, ML

Richard Henderson 29 occ WATERMAN..b. PENNSYLVANIA
Emely Henderson 27 b. MARYLAND
Mariam Henderson 8
Annie Henderson 3
John Henderson 7m

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=mir**&gsln=hender***&msbdy=1873&msbpn__ftp=Baltimore%2c+Maryland%2c+USA&msbpn=223&msbpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3244%7c23%7c0%7c223%7c0%7 c0%7c&msfng0=richard&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=0&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=49318890&db=1880usfedcen&indiv=1

haven't got time now as school run, but will be back in a while!!.. :)

Darksecretz
03-06-13, 18:06
OMG!!!! in 1900 they were still in Baltimore.. get this, she [Emily Henderson] was mother to 17 children!!! [but only 5 living at the time of 1900 cens] poor soul...

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1900usfedcen&indiv=try&h=20156518

Darksecretz
03-06-13, 18:31
I cannot pinpoint anything else at the moment, Annie b. 1879 Baltimore appears to have married a Chas. H. Baker about 1899 [as it states on the 1900 that they have been married 1yr] and they have a child 'Christian G. Baker' b. 1900.

NicWhiteley
03-06-13, 19:03
Thanks you're a star ;)

NicWhiteley
03-06-13, 19:45
Growing by the second now!!!! Just need to pin point Miriam & Fredrick Barkers marriage :)

Elaine
03-06-13, 20:01
I think this helps, think this is the family in BALTIMORE...Helen's birthplace
Richard is a waterman

United States Census, 1880
Name: Mariam Henderson
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1880
Event Place: Baltimore, Baltimore, Maryland, United States
Gender: Female
Age: 8
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: At School
Race (Original): W
Ethnicity: American
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Birthplace: Maryland, United States
Birth Date: 1872
Father's Name: Richard Henderson
Father's Birthplace: Pennsylvania, United States
Mother's Name: Emely Henderson
Mother's Birthplace: Maryland, United States
Page: 497
Page Letter: A
Entry Number: 395
Affiliate Film Number: T9-0499
GS Film number: 1254499
Digital Folder Number: 004241602
Image Number: 00757
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Self Richard Henderson M 29 Pennsylvania, United States
Wife Emely Henderson F 27 Maryland, United States
Daughter Mariam Henderson F 8 Maryland, United States
Daughter Annie Henderson F 3 Maryland, United States
Son John Henderson M 0 Maryland, United States

Darksecretz
03-06-13, 20:53
Growing by the second now!!!! Just need to pin point Miriam & Fredrick Barkers marriage :)

quite possibly they married in Baltimore.. [but, that is only a guess] I found Annie & Chas in the 1910 US Census, but lost them after that.. though did see Christian and he married a lady called Bessie.

i'll have a shuftie :) ~~~to Elaine :)

Nic, is it just the UK sub you have for Ancestry? [or do you have the worldwide one?]

Elaine
03-06-13, 20:56
If you go here

http://guide.mdsa.net/viewer.cfm?page=birth

it gives you 5 boxes to click into which you can search for births, it lets you download births covering the years you want icluding one for Baltimore, but I'm not too hot on whether it covers where they were living

Darksecretz
03-06-13, 21:15
1910: Baltimore

Christian G Henderson 25
Bessie E Henderson 24
Emlie J Henderson 12
Mattie I Henderson 4
Ellenora Henderson 2

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1910USCenIndex&h=10288725&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=7602

also living at the same address [but listed on a separate census index]

Richard P Henderson 59
Emma J Henderson 57

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=ric**&gsln=hender***&msbdy=1850&msbpn__ftp=Pennsylvania%2c+USA&msbpn=41&msbpn_PInfo=5-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3244%7c41%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0 %7c&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=0&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=10288728&db=1910USCenIndex&indiv=1

NicWhiteley
03-06-13, 21:21
Hi ladies, thanks for your assistance!!

I do have Full Worldwide Ancestry access Julie.......although it seems yours works better than mine ;)

Darksecretz
03-06-13, 21:26
Hi ladies, thanks for your assistance!!

I do have Full Worldwide Ancestry access Julie.......although it seems yours works better than mine ;)

pmsl!! lol.. so you can see the links that I add for you, that is cool :)

am trying to see if I can find Rich/Emily/Emma in later census.. though am having a little bit of a moment.. had a quick look to see if I could also spot Miriams marriage but, haven't had much luck so far..

Elaine
03-06-13, 21:29
Comes in with apologies, totally missed your post for 1880, flicking between too many pages...no brains today

Have tried looking for Baltimore records but it's not easy!

Darksecretz
03-06-13, 21:34
this might be one of the 17 children that died, I notice that this birth/death takes place in Pennsylvania, so they could have married there.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=FSPhilPADeath&h=500545&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=2535

Darksecretz
03-06-13, 21:35
Comes in with apologies, totally missed your post for 1880, flicking between too many pages...no brains today

Have tried looking for Baltimore records but it's not easy!

lol!! it's that sunshine we have had for the last few days Elaine... :p

Elaine
03-06-13, 21:55
How about

Pennsylvania, Births and Christenings, 1709-1950
Name: Miriam Henderson
Gender: Female
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 12 May 1872
Event Place: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Emily
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01000-0
System Origin: Pennsylvania-ODM
GS Film number: 1289314


and

Pennsylvania, Births and Christenings, 1709-1950
Name: Annie Rebecca Henderson
Gender: Female
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 01 Jul 1877
Event Place: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Father's Name: Richard Henderson
Mother's Name: Emily
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C73452-8
System Origin: Pennsylvania-ODM
GS Film number: 1289318

redeems herself;D

Darksecretz
03-06-13, 22:16
How about

Pennsylvania, Births and Christenings, 1709-1950
Name: Miriam Henderson
Gender: Female
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 12 May 1872
Event Place: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Emily
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01000-0
System Origin: Pennsylvania-ODM
GS Film number: 1289314


and

Pennsylvania, Births and Christenings, 1709-1950
Name: Annie Rebecca Henderson
Gender: Female
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 01 Jul 1877
Event Place: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Father's Name: Richard Henderson
Mother's Name: Emily
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C73452-8
System Origin: Pennsylvania-ODM
GS Film number: 1289318

redeems herself;D

FAB Elaine!! work that magic on FS and see if you can find a marriage for Richard n Emily/Emma/Emmaline? [it should be about 1872] according to the census anyrate

Elaine
03-06-13, 22:16
The death cert is here

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Ahenderson~%20%2Bfather_givennam e%3Arichard~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Aemma~&collection_id=1320976

for the death Julie found 1877

mother Emma jane

NicWhiteley
03-06-13, 22:19
Oki doke...this is what i have so far!!

Richard P Henderson 1850-1911 married in 1872 to Emily L. Elison 1853-1912

Their children Miriam, Annie, John, Elsie, Christian as follows:

Miriam Henderson 1873-1909 married to Frederick Robert Barker c.1870-c.1902/3 (don't know if he is USA or UK citizen)
Their children Frank William 1892-1901 born in USA died in UK
Florence Emily 1894-1972 ''
Helen 1896-1961 ''
Then marries John Henry Beckwith in South Shields 1904

John Henderson 1880-

Christian Henderson 1883-? married to Bessie E Douglas 1886-?
Their children Emily 1898
Mattie 1906
Ellenora 1908
Claire 1922-2001 married to John Charles Folks 1919-1973
Their children Robert 1940-2002 married to Barbara Wallen 1947-2007
Claire 1944-2003
Ralph 1945-1986

Elsie Henderson 1895

I'm well impressed, i've been searching for this link for months!!!!
Would really like to get some more info on Miriam Henderson & Frederick Robert Barker.
Thankyou so much for your help :)

Elaine
03-06-13, 22:27
Birth online for Annie

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBTN-Y9P#

NicWhiteley
03-06-13, 22:30
Well done Elaine...went on the site couldn't get it to work for me!! I think i'm jinxed LOL!!!

Elaine
03-06-13, 23:04
What about

1881 RG11; Piece: 5011; Folio: 107; Page: 34

20 Livingston Street, Westoe, South Shields
John B. Barker 33...tailor
Mary E. Barker 31
Margaret Barker 11
Frederick R. Barker 9
Mary E. Barker 7
Frank W. Barker 5
Phillis B. Barker 1

all born South Shields, Durham

and then he is not with them again

NicWhiteley
03-06-13, 23:31
Lovely, I'll have a look at that!! :)

NicWhiteley
04-06-13, 08:13
That's looking pretty likely to be the right one, lots going backwards......now just need the missing link!! Where did Miriam & Fredrick meet & marry & records of the childrens births. Wish me luck :)

Darksecretz
04-06-13, 08:49
alot of the time its just a matter of how you search.. more often than not less is more.. praps if Freddy boy was a mariner maybe he travelled to USA and met Miriam there?

have to do the school run in a mo but will be back in a while, so i'll have a look. :)

Darksecretz
04-06-13, 10:53
What about

1881 RG11; Piece: 5011; Folio: 107; Page: 34

20 Livingston Street, Westoe, South Shields
John B. Barker 33...tailor
Mary E. Barker 31
Margaret Barker 11
Frederick R. Barker 9
Mary E. Barker 7
Frank W. Barker 5
Phillis B. Barker 1

all born South Shields, Durham

and then he is not with them again

ok census link for 1881:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=fre*&gsln=bark**&msbdy=1870&msbpn__ftp=South+Shields%2c+Durham%2c+England&msbpn=83480&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5263%7c83480% 7c0%7c&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=0&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=4494781&db=uki1881&indiv=1

and his birth reg: ;)

Name: Frederick Robert Barker
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1871
Registration District: South Shields
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 671

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=FreeBMDBirth&h=45397970&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=7572

Darksecretz
04-06-13, 11:02
there is this, though it's a little non discript:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=fre*&gsln=bark**&msbdy=1870&msbpn__ftp=South+Shields%2c+Durham%2c+England&msbpn=83480&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5263%7c83480% 7c0%7c&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=0&pcat=40&h=134425&recoff=6+7&db=philadelphiaPL&indiv=1

says he's a labourer..

NicWhiteley
04-06-13, 11:05
Got that thanks Julie, but then he disappears. I was thinking along the same lines as you......have been searching through ships records for months & not come up with anything. Maybe now i've pinned him down a bit, i might have more success :)

NicWhiteley
04-06-13, 11:10
Yes, i've just found that......dob is well out though!

Darksecretz
04-06-13, 11:32
hmmmn, I have been looking and looking but still not found a marriage anywhere... pooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I wonder, what if you/we try and track down the childrens births? maybe if we found them it might help and/or on a passenger list coming back to the UK from USA?

[Miriams/Freds children I mean]

NicWhiteley
04-06-13, 11:39
I do apologise Julie....i've got 2 frederick robert barkers now.....was looking at the older one....DOH!!!!

NicWhiteley
04-06-13, 11:41
Yes am trying that too hun :)

NicWhiteley
04-06-13, 14:58
Still not found anything....grrrr!! Oh well, best go & get the kids from school :)

Darksecretz
04-06-13, 18:40
I have been looking to see if I can find the children, Florence etc.. but I can't spot anything... grrr

NicWhiteley
04-06-13, 19:36
Well annoying isn't it!!!!!

Elaine
04-06-13, 19:50
Yep, that's about the only age I could match anything up to last night and can't find an incoming at all for any of them

NicWhiteley
04-06-13, 22:08
I wonder whether if this is where his ship connection comes in, perhaps he worked on a ship & they travelled unofficially.......i think it's very inconsiderate of them!!!! ;)

Elaine
06-06-13, 20:39
Been back into those archives and I FOUND THE MARRIAGE, it'a a listing of basic info

Married 7 July 1890
Barker FredK R age 21
Henderson Merian age 18
Balto. City

have downloaded the file and snipped a copy and saved on a word, if you pm your address will send a copy

Darksecretz
06-06-13, 21:47
Been back into those archives and I FOUND THE MARRIAGE, it'a a listing of basic info

Married 7 July 1890
Barker FredK R age 21
Henderson Merian age 18
Balto. City

have downloaded the file and snipped a copy and saved on a word, if you pm your address will send a copy

brill Elaine... Nic will be SO chuffed!!.. :)

don't suppose you can try again with the births of the children? or a death for Fred?

Elaine
06-06-13, 22:07
There aren't any birth records to access on there, been round in circles looking and now got the hang of links and for births they are non existent!... and I can't find Fred.

Is 1911 Florence Ernesty as transcription A******* Florence Emily

can I put the word doc on with marriage listing?

Elaine
06-06-13, 22:44
Henderson Christiaan G age 20
Douglas Beesie E age 10
Baltimorer
15 May 1905

and again

Henderson Christian G age 29
Douglass Bessie E age 27
Baltimore
3 Nov 1914

it's only a male index so would need the marriage name of the groom to check anymore

In deaths
Frederick Barker July 29 1902
Baltimore

Barker
3 Jul 1902
Baltimore

and that's all the info it gives

Elaine
06-06-13, 23:03
Just found this IGI

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Frederic Robert Barker
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 05 Jul 1871
Christening Place: St. Hildas, South Shields, Durham, England
Birth Date: 16 Jun 1871
Father's Name: John Barker
Mother's Name: Mary Elizabeth Barker
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01159-1
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1894145
Reference ID: yr 1869-1874 p 132

Have found Margaret in the batch nos but not searched more as it's getting late and he is a guess

Darksecretz
07-06-13, 07:51
There aren't any birth records to access on there, been round in circles looking and now got the hang of links and for births they are non existent!... and I can't find Fred.

Is 1911 Florence Ernesty as transcription A******* Florence Emily

can I put the word doc on with marriage listing?

I think that from memory it was that mangled name for florence..

we know that Frank dies and that also Miriam dies, [after she has remarried] also 'Ellen' becomes Helen..

Darksecretz
07-06-13, 07:54
In deaths
Frederick Barker July 29 1902
Baltimore

Barker
3 Jul 1902
Baltimore

and that's all the info it gives

thats interesting, so he dies after the 1901 census, in Baltimore whereas Miriam & children are in the UK in S/Shields.. :conf:

Darksecretz
07-06-13, 07:58
Just found this IGI

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Frederic Robert Barker
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 05 Jul 1871
Christening Place: St. Hildas, South Shields, Durham, England
Birth Date: 16 Jun 1871
Father's Name: John Barker
Mother's Name: Mary Elizabeth Barker
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01159-1
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1894145
Reference ID: yr 1869-1874 p 132

Have found Margaret in the batch nos but not searched more as it's getting late and he is a guess

that looks quite promising Elaine... maybe, just maybe Nic could order the marriage cert from Vitalchek on Ancestry?.. [for Baltimore] and using these details to help fill in the dots?

I must admit that I have been thinking about the new way to order US documents on Ancestry [and have been VERY tempted]

Darksecretz
07-06-13, 08:47
There aren't any birth records to access on there, been round in circles looking and now got the hang of links and for births they are non existent!... and I can't find Fred.

Is 1911 Florence Ernesty as transcription A******* Florence Emily

can I put the word doc on with marriage listing?

now I am not so sure, I have been looking for Florence on 1911 and not having much luck!!.. be back in a bit.

NicWhiteley
07-06-13, 10:05
Thankyou so much for your continued efforts ladies :) I have been trawling through & have found absolutely NOWT!!! LOL
Got a few errands to run now but will be back later

Darksecretz
07-06-13, 12:45
hmm this is interesting...

1911: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=flo**&gsln=bar*er&msbdy=1894&msbpn__ftp=Baltimore%2c+Independent+Cities%2c+Mary land%2c+USA&msbpn=6193&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3244%7c23%7c0%7c1696909%7 c6193%7c0%7c&msrpn__ftp=Durham%2c+England&msrpn=5263&msrpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5263%7c0%7c0% 7c&cpxt=1&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=11&pcat=CEN_1910&h=31588319&db=1911England&indiv=1

do you have any other info on Florence at all Nic?

did she marry a 'Leach'? in 1917? and then again in 1924? to a 'Ginger' haired person? am I on the right track here?

Darksecretz
07-06-13, 13:00
ok I have now found FRORENCE ERNESTY... and it IS Florence EMELY!!!...

1911: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsln=barker&msbdy=1897&msbpn__ftp=Baltimore%2c+Independent+Cities%2c+Mary land%2c+USA&msbpn=6193&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3244%7c23%7c0%7c1696909%7 c6193%7c0%7c&msrpn__ftp=Newcastle+Upon+Tyne%2c+Northumberland%2 c+England&msrpn=86564&msrpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5278%7c86564% 7c0%7c&cpxt=1&uidh=lg3&msbdp=5&cp=11&pcat=CEN_1910&h=36739089&db=1911England&indiv=1

if you click on the image Nic, then click on INDEX [bottom left corner] you can then add a correction for her... :smilee: [this also ties in with the marriages too]

Elaine
07-06-13, 19:38
Hi Julie

I really don't know if it is Frederick's death but I agree about ordering the marriage cert so over to Nic...

Puts passenger lists leaving UK in a different light as he was already there when they start, but can't match anybody coming or going, or Frederick 1901

Glad you think the same for Florence, I was looking at that and the 1904 marriage before we went away and then lost track as the internet was a bit twitchy where I was so I'm glad I ran it by you

Elaine
07-06-13, 20:06
Is this Richard P ...No 13

Stricken Diggin Grave. Cemetery Employe a Victim of Heart Trouble...it's a pay site but you can read the first few words

http://www.genealogybank.com/gbnk/newspapers/explore/USA/Maryland/Baltimore/?sort=_rank_%3AD&lname=henderson&fname=richard&kwinc=&kwexc=&dateType=range&formDate=&formDateFlex=10&rgfromDate=&rgtoDate=&processingtime=&group=&pg=2

there's one the page before...No. 1

Elaine
07-06-13, 21:07
Some free Baltimore newspapers

http://news.google.com/newspapers#B

Darksecretz
07-06-13, 21:27
Is this Richard P ...No 13

Stricken Diggin Grave. Cemetery Employe a Victim of Heart Trouble...it's a pay site but you can read the first few words

http://www.genealogybank.com/gbnk/newspapers/explore/USA/Maryland/Baltimore/?sort=_rank_%3AD&lname=henderson&fname=richard&kwinc=&kwexc=&dateType=range&formDate=&formDateFlex=10&rgfromDate=&rgtoDate=&processingtime=&group=&pg=2

there's one the page before...No. 1

oh I see what you mean... though the first one I saw where the sexton was digging the grave and died on the spot...creepy

Darksecretz
07-06-13, 22:12
I tell you something Elaine.. I have just found a free paper for Connecticut, :) am having a shuftie..

Elaine
07-06-13, 22:25
I think this is Christian, son of Annie Rebecca

U.S., World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
Name: George Christian Baker
City: Baltimore
County: Baltimore (Independent City)
State: Maryland
Birth Date: 4 Mar 1900
Race: White
Draft Board: 8

He gives next of kin as Annie Rebecca Taylor
1823 North Duncan Street....newspaper had 1811 North Duncan Street

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-25085-95079-42?cc=1968530&wc=M9SL-1QQ:n911676989

Elaine
07-06-13, 22:26
I tell you something Elaine.. I have just found a free paper for Connecticut, :) am having a shuftie..

I wanted Oregon;D

Elaine
07-06-13, 22:34
Where are Chas and Annie 1910?

Darksecretz
08-06-13, 10:06
Where are Chas and Annie 1910?

erm, who?

Elaine
08-06-13, 10:20
[QUOTE=Darksecretz;2446082]quite possibly they married in Baltimore.. [but, that is only a guess] I found Annie & Chas in the 1910 US Census, but lost them after that.. though did see Christian and he married a lady called Bessie.

This Chas and Annie

Darksecretz
08-06-13, 10:40
not sure Elaine, this is them in 1900:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1900usfedcen&h=20156521&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=6742

Richard Henderson 49
Emily Henderson 46
John A Henderson 19
Christian G Henderson 16
Elsie E Henderson 4

Chas H Baker 29 b. maryland
Annie R Baker 20
Christian G Baker 3/12

can't spot her in 1910, though I may have found Chas in 1910 says he is divorced.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1910USCenIndex&h=26910705&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=7602

Darksecretz
08-06-13, 11:38
I have been looking to see if I can spot anything re Elsie, as she doesn't appear on the 1910 with her parents BUT I have found a marriage, but don't know how to proceed with it!

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=elsie&gsln=hende**&msbdy=1895&msbpn__ftp=Maryland%2c+USA&msbpn=23&msbpn_PInfo=5-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3244%7c23%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c0 %7c&msrpn__ftp=Baltimore%2c+Independent+Cities%2c+Mary land%2c+USA&msrpn=6193&msrpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3244%7c23%7c0%7c1696909%7 c6193%7c0%7c&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=12&pcat=34&h=45533&recoff=6+7&db=StructuredCrawledSites-13&indiv=1

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 17:25
that looks quite promising Elaine... maybe, just maybe Nic could order the marriage cert from Vitalchek on Ancestry?.. [for Baltimore] and using these details to help fill in the dots?

I must admit that I have been thinking about the new way to order US documents on Ancestry [and have been VERY tempted]

How do i go about doing this Julie? Can't find anything on Ancestry??

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 17:36
hmm this is interesting...

1911: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=flo**&gsln=bar*er&msbdy=1894&msbpn__ftp=Baltimore%2c+Independent+Cities%2c+Mary land%2c+USA&msbpn=6193&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3244%7c23%7c0%7c1696909%7 c6193%7c0%7c&msrpn__ftp=Durham%2c+England&msrpn=5263&msrpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5263%7c0%7c0% 7c&cpxt=1&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=11&pcat=CEN_1910&h=31588319&db=1911England&indiv=1

do you have any other info on Florence at all Nic?

did she marry a 'Leach'? in 1917? and then again in 1924? to a 'Ginger' haired person? am I on the right track here?

Yes, you're right on both counts :)
She had a child Cecil Barker in 1915....father unknown.
Then married John George Leach in 1917
They had 3 children George William 1919-1920/Dorothy 1921-1941/George Albert 1922-1975
John George died of TB in 1922
Then she married Robert Hedley Redhead ll in 1924
They had 7 children 1 died at 1yr , 2 committed suicide in adulthood
Robert Hedley died in 1956
Then Florence brought up my Dad, Micheal Stanley Redhead born in 1950 when his mother married an american marine & left him behind!!

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 17:42
I think this is Christian, son of Annie Rebecca

U.S., World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
Name: George Christian Baker
City: Baltimore
County: Baltimore (Independent City)
State: Maryland
Birth Date: 4 Mar 1900
Race: White
Draft Board: 8

He gives next of kin as Annie Rebecca Taylor
1823 North Duncan Street....newspaper had 1811 North Duncan Street

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-25085-95079-42?cc=1968530&wc=M9SL-1QQ:n911676989

I have a daughter for Annie & Charles .....Mary Anna Baker 1906-1982
I also have a death date as 26 april 1938 for Annie from another tree, but not much else at the mo.

Darksecretz
08-06-13, 17:55
How do i go about doing this Julie? Can't find anything on Ancestry??

on 'some' of the records in USA where the image usually is [on the index page] you generally have an order this cert..etc.. it seems like Ancestry.com have teamed up with Vitalchek and you can order from them, I have just looked at Maryland, and for marriages before 1990 you have to apply to the court circuit, but it isn't very clear [to me!] exactly what you have to pay and what you will get!..

link for Vitalchek

https://www.vitalchek.com/marriage-records/maryland/maryland-vital-records

link for court

http://www.mdcourts.gov/clerks/baltimore/



this is what it'll look like when you eventually come across it..

thats on one of my rellies :)

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&ssrc=pt_t56322661_p32014131128_kpidz0q3d3201413112 8z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid_m1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=Harr**&gsln=Lyd*ll&msbdy=1859&msbpn__ftp=New+Jersey&msrpn__ftp=Raritan%2c+Middlesex%2c+New+Jersey%2c+U SA&msrpn1__ftp=Manchester%2c+Hartford%2c+Connecticut% 2c+USA&msrpn1=1105&msrpn1_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3242%7c9%7c0%7c1323%7c110 5%7c0%7c&cpxt=0&catBucket=rstp&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=0&pcat=34&h=199621&recoff=8&db=ct1949-96&indiv=1

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 18:36
Oki doke, thanks....i'll have a look, see what i can sort :)

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 18:43
Well done on finding that 1911 cencus with Florence on.....should have said that first sorry!!! Got excited & forgot!!! :worship:

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 19:28
Been back into those archives and I FOUND THE MARRIAGE, it'a a listing of basic info

Married 7 July 1890
Barker FredK R age 21
Henderson Merian age 18
Balto. City

have downloaded the file and snipped a copy and saved on a word, if you pm your address will send a copy
Hey Elaine, where did you find this, i still can't find it anywhere......also i find the US system VERY confusing, it seems to just send you round in circles....or is it just me being thick?? :)

Elaine
08-06-13, 20:00
It took a few goes, they are all here

http://guide.mdsa.net/viewer.cfm?page=topviewed

I scrolled down to marriages, clicked on that and on the page it took me to, clicked on Marriage Records 1865+, and scrolled down to Index Series Name to cover the marriage years you wanted, I have saved the PDF's for those years if you would like them, one covers B, the other H.

This is the link on that page before download

BALTIMORE CITY COURT OF COMMON PLEAS (Marriage Index, Male) 1886-1914 MSA T2426 N/A

clicking on MSA will take you to a list where the surnames are for the period covered, a long the line is... Link...click on this for the relevant surname...for this I chose Barker ( didn't see Chas Baker among those years) and then Henderson (male index only)....the marriage doc you have should give you the refs you need for order

http://guide.mdsa.net/viewer.cfm?page=placeorder

is where you order

and if in doubt, there is an email address for enquiries, looks like it will cost $35 for marriages, $25 birth/death

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 20:36
Got it, deffo didn't get anywhere near that when i did it.....ha ha ha, thankyou :)

Elaine
08-06-13, 20:53
Glad I could help, that passenger list, or lack of should I say, is soooooooooooooooo bugging me though:p

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 21:04
Have emailed them for further details on ordering & what you actually get........let's hope it amounts to something.....excited!!!! :)

Elaine
08-06-13, 21:09
Brilliant, look forward to your next posting:)

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 21:09
Glad I could help, that passenger list, or lack of should I say, is soooooooooooooooo bugging me though:p

Yes i know!! This whole section of my tree has been bugging me for months.....thanks to you & Julie we've made some real breakthroughs these last couple of weeks. So i should think myself lucky really.....but wouldn't it be ace just to find everything you're looking for LOL :fingers-crossed:

Darksecretz
08-06-13, 21:17
Well done on finding that 1911 cencus with Florence on.....should have said that first sorry!!! Got excited & forgot!!! :worship:

s'ok.. just got back in from my evening ramble.. :) it was Elaine that found the name.. I just provided the link :)

Darksecretz
08-06-13, 21:22
do you know any more of Elsie, Nic? [Miriams sister] she doesn't appear in the 1910 Census with her parents, so she either died or married.. I did find a marriage in 1910 but don't know to whom.. as it doesn't say!.. [as per post #77]

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 21:39
Yes i have the same as you, if her dob is correct she would be 15 at the date of the marriage! Can't find any more details on it at the mo.

Darksecretz
08-06-13, 21:55
hmmn.

I had a little look to see if I could find anything on John Henderson b. 1880... I *think* that this looks possible:

1910: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=john+&gsln=hende**&msbdy=1880&msbpn__ftp=Baltimore%2c+Maryland%2c+USA&msbpn=223&msbpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3244%7c23%7c0%7c223%7c0%7 c0%7c&cpxt=1&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=12&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=10294876&db=1910USCenIndex&indiv=1

1920: Not sure about this.... http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1920usfedcen&h=108934149&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=6224

1930: likewise not sure: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=john+&gsln=hende**&msbdy=1880&msbpn__ftp=Baltimore%2c+Maryland%2c+USA&msbpn=223&msbpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3244%7c23%7c0%7c223%7c0%7 c0%7c&cpxt=1&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=12&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=104573122&db=1930usfedcen&indiv=1

1940: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=john+&gsln=hende**&msbdy=1880&msbpn__ftp=Baltimore%2c+Maryland%2c+USA&msbpn=223&msbpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c1652393%7c0%7c2%7c3244%7c23%7c0%7c223%7c0%7 c0%7c&cpxt=1&uidh=lg3&msbdp=2&cp=12&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=150374786&db=1940usfedcen&indiv=1

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 22:20
No differences between the Johns, but the Anna's have differing ages & 1910 Anna's parents are irish :)

NicWhiteley
08-06-13, 22:27
Signing off for tonight, got loads to do.......shouldn't really be doing any family history, but it's just sooooo addictive :bye:

Darksecretz
08-06-13, 23:14
Signing off for tonight, got loads to do.......shouldn't really be doing any family history, but it's just sooooo addictive :bye:

night, Nic.. and yes it is....lol.. :smilee:

NicWhiteley
09-06-13, 12:31
Just joined a Maryland Genealogy group on FB.......apparently back when we're searching childrens names weren't recorded, so you have to search under fathers name!!!

Darksecretz
09-06-13, 16:21
Just joined a Maryland Genealogy group on FB.......apparently back when we're searching childrens names weren't recorded, so you have to search under fathers name!!!

typical!! :rolleyes5cz:

NicWhiteley
09-06-13, 23:26
Found absolutely NOWT!!!! :confused:

Elaine
09-06-13, 23:45
John A Henderson 24
married
Annie S Finnerty 23
21 Sep 1903
Baltimore
Howzat:)

Elaine
10-06-13, 00:19
Well, found the births

http://guide.mdsa.net/series.cfm?action=viewSeries&ID=CM1134

not found anything to 1893 but I didn't realise the time so :sleepy:

Darksecretz
10-06-13, 08:41
John A Henderson 24
married
Annie S Finnerty 23
21 Sep 1903
Baltimore
Howzat:)

and that could possibly tie in with the census that I found for a John & Ann/Annie :) lookin gooooooooooooooooooooddd.

NicWhiteley
10-06-13, 11:40
I don't know how you do it Elaine!!!!!! You're a star!!! :clap:
Really busy today, so can't look :( Hopefully get time tonight.

Elaine
10-06-13, 13:42
Hi Nic
I could kick myself, downloaded one file and then it wouldn't let me in to do anymore, wait for it, a few nights ago....clicked into a few more and got the links for births....work that one out. Will download the yrs for you, can easily send them to you but I will check through tonight yr by yr. Got to tidy as the daughter was home for a few days, devastated my house as usual, gotta love them though:o

Elaine
10-06-13, 20:49
Went from 1875-1900 and found

Information typed out as

1879 ....? John
Henderson Richard and E.
Nov 2 A-34755

1882
Richard and Emily
Feb 7
A-53714

1889
Richard and Emily
Mar 6th
A-10727

1890
Richard and Emma
Jan 11
A-18217

1891
Richard and Emily
Feb 1
A-28281


1897 Barker Frederick and Marion
Feb 4th A-61052
MSA CM1134-13

So that gives 1897-1901 for passenger lists

Elaine
10-06-13, 21:02
There's also some original death registers here

http://guide.mdsa.net/series.cfm?action=viewSeries&ID=CE42

but it doesn't give parents

NicWhiteley
10-06-13, 22:00
Thankyou sooo much Elaine, had a mental busy day & really tired, going to get an early night. Will deffo look tomorrow :)

Elaine
10-06-13, 22:13
No worries, still looking for you

NicWhiteley
11-06-13, 16:31
Been back into those archives and I FOUND THE MARRIAGE, it'a a listing of basic info

Married 7 July 1890
Barker FredK R age 21
Henderson Merian age 18
Balto. City

have downloaded the file and snipped a copy and saved on a word, if you pm your address will send a copy

Hi, just heard back from Maryland re Marriage.....there are no certificates, it's just a page in a ledger book.
This is what it contains : The columns in the ledger book from left to right have the following
headings: date of issue (of licence); male (name of groom);
residence; age; color; condition (marital status); relation (if
related to each other); female (name of bride); residence; age; color;
condition; relation; date of marriage; name of minister; date of
filling of minister's certificate (notice to the court that the couple
was married and not extant any more; and remarks (left blank 99% of
the time).
Not sure whether it's worth 35$ for that....doesn't give anything more than what we already know!!

Darksecretz
11-06-13, 17:22
Hi, just heard back from Maryland re Marriage.....there are no certificates, it's just a page in a ledger book.
This is what it contains : The columns in the ledger book from left to right have the following
headings: date of issue (of licence); male (name of groom);
residence; age; color; condition (marital status); relation (if
related to each other); female (name of bride); residence; age; color;
condition; relation; date of marriage; name of minister; date of
filling of minister's certificate (notice to the court that the couple
was married and not extant any more; and remarks (left blank 99% of
the time).
Not sure whether it's worth 35$ for that....doesn't give anything more than what we already know!!

tbh Nic, I wouldn't bother, you know who married and when, just need to add the 'where the information was found' in the citation/fact/source part of your tree. [thats if you add them]

Elaine
11-06-13, 19:20
Doesn't seem worth buying it, such a shame

Elaine
11-06-13, 21:22
Do you think it's worth emailing the archives to see what info is on the birth certifcate using 1897 ref?

NicWhiteley
12-06-13, 08:14
Do you think it's worth emailing the archives to see what info is on the birth certifcate using 1897 ref?

I will do Elaine :)

NicWhiteley
13-06-13, 18:21
Do you think it's worth emailing the archives to see what info is on the birth certifcate using 1897 ref?

This is the info they've sent :
In 1874, Baltimore City's Mayor and City Council passed an ordinance
for the registration of births in the city (No. 86, Ordinances of
1874). Even after 1898 when the state Board of Health began
regulating birth registration for the 23 counties, Baltimore City
continued to maintain its own records until 1972.

The earliest certificates resulting from the ordinance contained the
sex, race, and number (birth order) of the child, date and place of
birth, names and birthplaces of the parents, occupation of the father,
and the name and address of the medical attendant. In 1903, the
city's Bureau of Vital Statistics revised the form to add a line for
the child's name. However, the certificates do not routinely include
the name of the child until 1911. Another revision of the form took
place in 1910, adding the residence, race, age and occupation of each
parent and the number of children previously born to the mother.

Please note that the lines are not always filled in due to the
knowledge of the informant at the time.

If you would like a copy, the non-refundable fee is $25.00 each.
Please note that all copies are automatically certified at no
additional charge.

The parents details may help us confirm where Fred came from.....but then it could just say England!! What do you reckon?

Elaine
13-06-13, 19:32
My head says no but my heart....it's the closest piece of info you have to anything for Frederick and do you take the plunge?

NicWhiteley
13-06-13, 19:44
My head says no but my heart....it's the closest piece of info you have to anything for Frederick and do you take the plunge?

Yes, i feel the same.....think i'll do it!! Test the water with the birth cert, see what kind of decent info we get!?! ;)

Elaine
13-06-13, 21:01
Oh goody, can't wait to see what it says, fingers crossed ;D

Elaine
13-06-13, 22:18
Still not sure about this one

1900 United States Federal Census
Name: Frederick Barker
Age: 33
Birth Date: Apr 1867
Birthplace: England
Home in 1900: Baltimore Ward 3, Baltimore City (Independent City), Maryland
[Baltimore]
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1895
Relation to Head of House: Boarder
Marital Status: Married
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England

the other chap boarding is a waiter, not sure what Frederick is supposed to be, the hint is always there at the side for the Frederick travelling 1891 and Frederick we found 1881, otherwise I am running out of ideas!

NicWhiteley
14-06-13, 11:32
Thanks Elaine :)

NicWhiteley
16-06-13, 01:02
What do reckon to this ladies?
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/86...l=ReturnRecord (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8679/mdm255_42-0622/1110908?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dweb-obituary%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d1% 26msT%3d1%26gss%3dms_db%26gsfn%3dfrederick%26gsln% 3dbarker%26msbdy%3d1871%26msddy%3d1901%26msdpn__ft p%3dUSA%26msdpn%3d2%26msdpn_PInfo%3d3-%257c0%257c1652393%257c0%257c2%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c0%257c0%257c0%257c%26dbOnly%3d_F00047F6%257c_F0 0047F6_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0002717%257c_F0002717_x%26ui dh%3duld%26msddp%3d5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)

Could this be Fred travelling with his family in 1887?

Elaine
16-06-13, 08:27
I keep going back to that one but just don't know

NicWhiteley
16-06-13, 20:25
The dates tie in, but it doesn't give us any connection with the North East.....mmmmmm!!!!

Elaine
17-06-13, 19:31
Sorry computer crashed but getting everything slowly back, I did have a look and if I remember right, I think he may be the guy with the Illinois records but as we don't know him yet, it's hard to discount. My feeling at the time was it wasn't him but if you have a look at the family, let me know what you think.

NicWhiteley
17-06-13, 21:37
Will do Elaine, thanks :)

Elaine
17-06-13, 23:32
Just had a look at the Durham family and poss brother Frank William is a cook

1901 England Census RG13; Piece: 4507; Folio: 155
Name: Frank William Barker
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Cook
Gender: Male
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Albert Dock Hull
County/Island: Yorkshire



ship steward 1911

Elaine
18-06-13, 00:00
He's on the Earsdon if you click on to page 2 1901

NicWhiteley
18-06-13, 12:02
Hi Elaine, i saved a load of details cencus etc about the Barkers the other day, just trawling through it all now. That one was amongst it, although we haven't got a definitive answer i'm def favouring this family, everything just seems to fit doesn't it? Just need to find the elusive Frederick & tie him in ;)

Elaine
18-06-13, 20:54
How old was Frederick's son Frank when he died?
I keep going at the passenger lists:p

NicWhiteley
20-06-13, 10:49
Hi Elaine, sorry for the delay, been working....really busy!!
Frank died in 1901 & he was 9 yrs old :)

Elaine
20-06-13, 22:39
Thie is why I don't think it is the passenger list with William and family 1887


Illinois, Deaths and Stillbirths Index, 1916-1947
Name: Fred Barker
Birth Date: 29 Apr 1871
Birth Place: Yorkshire, England
Death Date: 13 Jun 1932
Death Place: Oak Park, Cook, Illinois
Burial Date: 15 Jun 1932
Burial Place: Addison Twp., Du Page, Illinois
Cemetery Name: Mt. Emblem
Death Age: 61
Occupation: Paun Machinest
Race: White
Marital Status: M
Gender: Male
Street Address: 309 South Blvd
Residence: Oak Park, Illinois
Father Name: Wm. Barker
Father Birth Place: Yorkshire, England
Mother Name: Jane Woods
Mother Birth Place: Yorkshire, England
Spouse Name: Elizabeth M. Barker
Comments: resident 25 yrs, 45 yrs in U.S.
FHL Film Number: 1684334

NicWhiteley
20-06-13, 23:35
My feeling is it isn't them either.....but if this is our Frederick, Miriam must have lied about his death when she remarried :shock: Ooooo now then, this could get scandalous!!!! Ha ha ha

NicWhiteley
20-06-13, 23:39
Oooooo exciting, just ordered a DNA testing kit from Family Tree DNA :clap:

Elaine
23-06-13, 22:35
have you seen the tree on A******* with the families certificates for England?

NicWhiteley
23-06-13, 23:29
Whose tree is it?

Elaine
23-06-13, 23:48
If you search for Florence Emily Barker, a whole tree comes up, username begins with dorothy...if I am allowed to write that, it is a public tree. You should find it OK

NicWhiteley
24-06-13, 00:12
Tee hee......it's a great branch of the tree thanks to you & Julie......i share the membership with my aunt.....thanks anyway;)