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Tippin
18-05-13, 16:19
Hi all,

Does anybody know where British convicts would have been transported to in the 1850's?

This is in relation to one of my ancestor's brother's, Henry Florence, who was sentenced to death in 1850, but had his sentence reduced to transportation for life. I am having a real problem finding out what happened to him. I had expected him to end up in Australia, but I have so far been unable to find any trace of him 'down under'.

Thanks for any assistance,
Tippin

Loopy Linda in La La Land
18-05-13, 16:31
My GGGGrandfather went to Tasmania (then Van Diemens Land)

Linda

Caroline
18-05-13, 16:44
Useful dates here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation

Janet in Yorkshire
18-05-13, 17:00
Well my ancestor was sentenced to transportation "beyond the seas" (Australia) for 7 years. I couldn't find him in Oz and eventually he turned up on the hulks moored on the Thames (images on Ancestry, I think.) He was pardoned after 6 years and went back to his native Norfolk village. If I hadn't come across a newspaper report of his remand for stealing "fat" Christmas poultry, I would have assumed that he'd probably never been further away from home than the local town.

Tippin
18-05-13, 17:34
Thanks for all your suggestions.

I have been looking on the net, and cannot make head nor tale of what became of Henry. The only thing I have noticed is that on the National Archives, there is the following document http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C10128063. I requested them to take a copy of this earlier on in the year for me, but I have now noticed that it says Henry had a licence granted on the 30th March 1854 for early release from Pentonville Prison. I have received this document, and after going over it with a a couple of times, I cannot see where it says about a licence being granted, and cannot even see any information dated after 1850!!

Now I am a novice in the field of Victorian Crime and Punishment, but would a man who has been sentenced to death for a highway robbery (with wounding), who has had his sentence reduced to life transportation, then be let of completely only four years later? I cannot see this being correct (and it would mean that the National Archives has only copied half of the document I requested - and they have probably charged me for the whole thing :mad:).

Thanks for all your advise,
Tippin

Elaine
18-05-13, 20:10
Did he commit the crime in 1847?

Have found a list in the paper as Proclamations of Outlawry
Morning Post
Publication date Friday 05 September 1856
There is a Henry Florence listed

liz hutchison
18-05-13, 21:07
Hi Henry Flolrance was convicted Staffordshire Feb 1849 for Larceny and received 3 months then he was convicted of robbery and wounding March 1850, Saffordshire sentenced to death then they changed it to transportation for life, still looing to see where he went. Convict ships were being to stop coming to Austraia starting in some states 1849 then the last one was about 1863.Lizzy

Elaine
18-05-13, 21:21
Have found a snippet in the paper, Highway robbery and assault, Hereford Times 23 Mar 1850 for a Henry Florence, says he assaulted Thomas Smith 26th Oct 1847 at the parish of Mucclestone, taken into custody 22 mths later when the prosecutor recognised him. the prisoner was found to be guilty and sentenced to death

ALSO

Have found this site

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/contents.html

gives a complete listing of executions in England covering the years you mention

liz hutchison
19-05-13, 02:49
From what I can gather from that info Licences Granted 30th March 1854 from Pentonville Prison which is on Caledonian Road Barnsbury he was not transported any where he must have remained in U K, lizzy

Macbev
19-05-13, 10:10
He does not appear in the lists of convicts for Western Australia (Swan River colony) which was receiving convicts from 1851 till the early 1860s.There is a Henry Florence serving one week's imprisonment for simple larceny - convicted in Canterbury, Kent - in 1870. could this possibly be the same man?

margaretmarch
19-05-13, 10:20
If he wasn't transported could this be his death?

Henry Florence
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1855
Registration District: Uttoxeter
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 203

Tippin
19-05-13, 10:52
Thank you so much for all your assistance with Henry Florence.


Have found a snippet in the paper, Highway robbery and assault, Hereford Times 23 Mar 1850 for a Henry Florence, says he assaulted Thomas Smith 26th Oct 1847 at the parish of Mucclestone, taken into custody 22 mths later when the prosecutor recognised him. the prisoner was found to be guilty and sentenced to death

Elaine, that is very interesting. I had thought that the crime was committed around 1849/50 as that was when he was tried, I had no idea that the assault was back in 1847. The Proclamations of Outlawry you mentioned, can this be viewed online any where as the entry you found does seem to be the Henry I am looking for?



Hi Henry Florance was convicted Staffordshire Feb 1849 for Larceny and received 3 months then he was convicted of robbery and wounding March 1850, Saffordshire sentenced to death then they changed it to transportation for life

Lizzy, thank you for having a look for me. The entry for larceny in 1849 sounds promising. The records I have for Henry do state that he had a previous conviction, so it looks like you may have found it. I will have to get hold of the local papers to see if I can find out more.


There is a Henry Florence serving one week's imprisonment for simple larceny - convicted in Canterbury, Kent - in 1870. could this possibly be the same man?

Macbev, I know there was a Florence family living in Kent, so the Henry convicted in 1870 could be unrelated. Having said that, the Florence family were travelers (hawkers/tinkers) so my Henry could have turned up in Kent by 1870. That's the problem with researching this family - they have a tendency to be travelling when the census were taken so are not recorded!


Henry Florence
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1855
Registration District: Uttoxeter
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 203

Margaret, that could well be Henry's death - I had not seen it before. The Florence's were based around the Uttoxeter/Burton-upon-Trent area of Staffordshire (although they were travelers, this seems to be the area they called home). If he had left prison in 1854, he seems to have died soon after. Would they have allowed him out of prison if was ill?

Thank you once again to everyone who has offered an opinion on this, and had a look for Henry for me. It looks like I will have to purchase the death certificate Margaret suggested to see if this solves the question.

Tippin

Elaine
19-05-13, 20:27
Have pm'd you