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dermotdjt
14-05-13, 13:41
Hi folks

In this 1871 census do you think William Evenett age is 37 or 57

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LNDRG10_671_673-0032&fn=William&ln=Evenett&st=r&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309690_kpidz0q3d1371230969 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&pid=2442863

Cheers

D

Elaine ..Spain
14-05-13, 13:55
I would say 37. Can you find him on another census to compare?

dermotdjt
14-05-13, 14:34
This is a possible 1861 record for William and Ann

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=SRYRG9_356_359-0293&fn=William&ln=Evennett&st=r&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309690_kpidz0q3d1371230969 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&pid=6326660

If he is 37 in 1871, then he is 26 here. And the age diiference between him and Ann remains at 5 or 6 years. All perfectly possible.

What concerns me is that their places of birth change between the two records. How to find William in the 1851 census!!

D

susan h
14-05-13, 14:35
According to the 1871 census he was born Lambeth, so south of the river. The only apt baptism I can find is William Henry baptised Wandsworth dec 9th 1832 son of George Samuel and Mary. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1558&iid=31280_199301-00240&fn=William+Henry&ln=Evenett&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5576405

Elaine ..Spain
14-05-13, 14:42
Possible marriage:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&f8=william&f10=e*ett&sx=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&rg_f51__date=&rs_f51__date=0&f99=&f53=&f23=&f24=&f18=ann*&f19=&f28=&f29=&gskw=&prox=1&db=lmamarriages&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=70&h=2443557&recoff=8+10+28&fsk=CIAABlcAIdEq&bsk=&pgoff=

Do you have Ann's maiden name from any of the children's birth certificates?

dermotdjt
14-05-13, 14:46
Another puzzle is the marriage between William and Ann. The only reasonable contender I have be able to find so far is William ALEXANDER Evennett and Ann Harriet Spear, 11 Sep 1859 Lambeth St Mary.

Is this William Henry!!??

D

susan h
14-05-13, 16:50
There were other children baptised to William (Henry) and Ann on same day as Clara Grace. Oct 15th 1871, at Lambeth St Peter, West Dulwich

Both described as adult baptisms; William Henry and Alice Grace. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1558&iid=32184_218924-00247&fn=Clara+Grace&ln=Evennett&st=r&ssrc=&pid=8741724

Edit: info added, the William Henry adult baptism I think is William Henry snr. his baptism was Oct 8th, Alice Grace Oct 17th.

Wonder why Alice Grace wasn't baptised on same day as Clara Grace????????????????

vera2013
14-05-13, 16:52
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1558&iid=32184_218924-00247&fn=William+Henry&ln=Evennett&st=r&ssrc=&pid=8741728

Found this baptism. 2 children and 2 adults. Some info as in 1871 census but not all.

Snap Susan H and just about to add re adults. Wonder if Alice Grace is Ann

Vera

susan h
14-05-13, 23:41
Hi dermotdjt, Please can you say which child of William and Ann you've traced back from? And if possible provide a link to a census return when he/she was living independent of their parents.

dermotdjt
15-05-13, 09:22
Thanks for you interest everyone.

Alice Grace is my wife's great grandmother. My father in law remembers her before her death in 1939. The family story goes that the parents died when the children (Alice, Clara and William) were quiet young. The girls were sent to an orphanage in the Teingmouth area but the fate of William is unknown. I think the orphanage was run by a relgious order ( I have some notes somewhere which I must dig out but there is nothing conclusive as to which orphanage)

Until this week my research had suggested that the parents were William Alexander Evennett and Ann Harriet Spears (as suggested by Elaine above). This would suggest the children were Allice Ann Harriet Evennett, Clara Elizabeth Evennett and William Henry Evennett. We wondered why the girls middle names had changed, both to Grace. We thought maybe that the new names were given to them at the orphanaged, perhaps after a nun/sister who looked after them. Did such things happen?

Then I found the baptism records of the family http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1558/32184_218924-00247/8741724?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

This clearly shows
1) The father name to be William Henry
2) The girls middle name is Grace.

At this time the children wouild be 10 (Alice), 7 (Clara) and 2 (William) years of age. Why are the children and the father being baptised now and all together (ish). Would the baptism of a 10 year old be regarded as an adult baptism..

So working from this information I am trying to develop a new profile for William Henry and add him into the family tree as an alternative to William Alexandra

William Henry Evennett
Baptism http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1558/32184_218924-00247/8741724?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
1871 http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LNDRG10_671_673-0032/2442863?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1871%26h%3d2442863%26ti%3d 5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t5477157 2_p13870762967_kpidz0q3d13870762967z0q26pgz0q3d327 68z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13870762967_kpidz0q3d1387076296 7z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Alice Grace Evennett
Death http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7579/ons_d19392az-0628/28777492?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3donsdeath93%26h%3d28777492%26t i%3d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t547 71572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d13712309630z0q26pgz0q3 d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d1371230963 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord
1911 http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_12977_0769_03/54441383?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911england%26h%3d54441383%26 ti%3d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t54 771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d13712309630z0q26pgz0q 3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d1371230963 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord
1901 http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/DEVRG13_2098_2099-0059/11615490?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1901%26h%3d11615490%26ti%3 d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t547715 72_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d13712309630z0q26pgz0q3d32 768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d1371230963 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord
1897 Marraige http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8913/ONS_M18974AZ-0370/9350269?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dfreebmdmarriage%26h%3d9350269 %26ti%3d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_ t54771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d13712309630z0q26pg z0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d1371230963 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord
1891? http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/DEVRG12_1737_1739-0489/2460967?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1891%26h%3d2460967%26ti%3d 5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t5477157 2_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d13712309630z0q26pgz0q3d327 68z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d1371230963 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord
1881 http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/DEVRG11_2148_2152-0937/3098676?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881%26h%3d3098676%26ti%3d 5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t5477157 2_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d13712309630z0q26pgz0q3d327 68z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d1371230963 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord
1871 Not Found
1861 Birth (if child of William Alexandra) http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8912/ONS_B18621AZ-0381/2505207?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dfreebmdbirth%26h%3d2505207%26 ti%3d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t54 771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d13712309630z0q26pgz0q 3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d1371230963 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord

So no birth certificates yet as uncertain if we have the correct children. I think the next step is to try and find the marriage of William Henry and Ann and perhaps a death record for William Henry.

A thought just occured to me - if the Childrens middle names where changed at the time of their baptisms in 1871, might the fathers' middle name have changed as well. That would confusing things a lot.

Thanks again for all the help.

Dermot

margaretmarch
15-05-13, 12:36
It's possible that when the children were to be admitted to the orphanage that it was a requirement to be baptised and so that was done for them all at the same time. To go into an orphanage didn't mean there were no parents just that the one remaining parent was unable to look after them.

The change of middle name from that at birth is more difficult to explain and could be for a variety of reasons although why both girls with the same middle name is beyond me at the moment.

Margaret

margaretmarch
15-05-13, 12:43
The first thing you should do is get the marriage certificate for Alice Grace Evennett to see who she says her father is and what his occupation was.

Margaret

margaretmarch
15-05-13, 12:46
The 1881 link you have given does not have Alice on the page and is for addresses in Exeter - or am I missing something?

Margaret

susan h
15-05-13, 13:23
The 1881 link you have given does not have Alice on the page and is for addresses in Exeter - or am I missing something?

Margaret

Margaret, Alice is in Exeter in 1881, move on one page from the link to find her.

dermotdjt
15-05-13, 13:25
Margaret

In the 1881 link should be for the next page. Sorry. http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/DEVRG11_2148_2152-0937/3098676?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881%26h%3d3098676%26ti%3d 5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t5477157 2_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d13712309630z0q26pgz0q3d327 68z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d1371230963 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord#?imageId=DEVRG11_2148_2152-0938

Alice G Evenett, 19, Nurserymaid - Domestic Servant.

The marriage certificate just says deceased for her father:(


D

margaretmarch
15-05-13, 14:51
Margaret

In the 1881 link should be for the next page. Sorry. http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/DEVRG11_2148_2152-0937/3098676?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881%26h%3d3098676%26ti%3d 5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t5477157 2_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d13712309630z0q26pgz0q3d327 68z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t54771572_p13712309630_kpidz0q3d1371230963 0z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord#?imageId=DEVRG11_2148_2152-0938

Alice G Evenett, 19, Nurserymaid - Domestic Servant.

The marriage certificate just says deceased for her father:(


D
Does she give his name though?
Margaret

dermotdjt
15-05-13, 15:07
NO:crying:

margaretmarch
15-05-13, 17:07
NO:crying:

Oh dear! so she had no idea who her father was which bears out your story of the orphanage.

Margaret

dermotdjt
15-05-13, 17:11
She may have forgotten him but I'm sure she did know him as she would have been baptised when she was 10. I think re the marriage certificate it was more a case of since William was dead then no details were recorded other than 'deceased'.

margaretmarch
15-05-13, 17:18
There are these two deaths that look possible for William

William Alexander Evennett
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1871
Age at Death: 37
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 311

William Henry Evennett
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1872
Age at Death: 49
Registration district: Chelmsford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 124

Only the first one matches with the census records you have and for the location of the baptisms. I would get the death cert for William Alexander to see what occupation if any was given as well as the informant who may or may not be a relative.

This death also fits with the mother Ann who is showing registered in the same district just before.

Ann Harriet Evennett
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1871
Age at Death: 42
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 273

Margaret

susan h
15-05-13, 17:20
I wonder where she was in 1871 census? It is possible the children's mother died but their dad was still alive when Alice married. Maybe she felt abandoned by him and therefore refused to recognise him on her marriage cert. Just a thought!!! However, if Alice's father was William Alexander Evenett there's an appropriate death ......................

Oct - Dec 1871, Lambeth, 1d/311 age at death 37.

susan h
15-05-13, 17:23
I think the deaths Margaret has posted - Ann Harriet 1871 and William Alexander 1871 are very likely.

dermotdjt
15-05-13, 17:40
Those are the records I originally had. Think I will have to get the death certificates and see if there is corroborating information on them.

Thanks one and all

D

margaretmarch
15-05-13, 18:48
Those are the records I originally had. Think I will have to get the death certificates and see if there is corroborating information on them.

Thanks one and all

D

Do let us know when you get them as this is quite intriguing!
Margaret

susan h
16-05-13, 06:13
Another puzzle is the marriage between William and Ann. The only reasonable contender I have be able to find so far is William ALEXANDER Evennett and Ann Harriet Spear, 11 Sep 1859 Lambeth St Mary.

Is this William Henry!!??

D

They married 11th Oct 1859, 11 Sept you refer to was banns date. http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_195101-00251/4881701?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d1%26f8%3dann%26 f10%3dspear%26sx%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d%26rs_81 004011__date%3d0%26rg_f51__date%3d1859%26rs_f51__d ate%3d0%26f99%3d%26f53%3d%26f23%3d%26f24%3d%26f18% 3d%26f19%3d%26f28%3d%26f29%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1 %26db%3dlmamarriages%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss %3dangs-d%26pcat%3d34%26fh%3d0%26h%3d4881701%26recoff%3d8% 2b10%2b29&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

susan h
16-05-13, 07:00
I wonder, is this Alice in 1871 - indexed as Everett?

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/ESSRG10_1622_1624-0420/8108515?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1871%252c%26ra nk%3d1%26gsfn%3dali*%26gsln%3dev*t%26gsco%3d%26s0R ealGL%3dUKICen%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f5%3d%26f18%3d%26 rg_81004011__date%3d1862%26rs_81004011__date%3d1%2 6f14%3dlondon%252c%2bsurrey%26f15%3d%26_8000C002%3 d%26_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3d%26f8%3d%26 f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0 %26gss%3dangs-d%26pcat%3dUKICEN%26fh%3d7%26h%3d8108515%26recoff% 3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

susan h
16-05-13, 07:39
A witness to the marriage between William and Ann was Harriet Catherine Evennet(T). Here's her probable marriage, father William (tailor); she is Williams sister perhaps?

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_195105-00020/4895962?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d1%26f8%3dhar*%2 6f10%3dev*t%26sx%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d%26rs_81 004011__date%3d0%26rg_f51__date%3d1865%26rs_f51__d ate%3d0%26f99%3dLambeth%26f53%3d%26f23%3d%26f24%3d %26f18%3d%26f19%3d%26f28%3d%26f29%3d%26gskw%3d%26p rox%3d1%26db%3dlmamarriages%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d 0%26gss%3dangs-d%26pcat%3d34%26fh%3d2%26h%3d4895962%26recoff%3d8% 2b10%2b40&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

dermotdjt
16-05-13, 20:11
I've ordered the death certificates for William Alexander and Ann Harriet. Lets see what they reveal!!

susan h
16-05-13, 20:17
If the 1861 link you provided is 'your' William - he's entered as born Waltham Cross. I've found a few Evenetts + various spellings born Waltham Abbey, I presume Waltham Abbey and Waltham Cross are close geographically. I'll go back to my notes, from memory a possible sighting of Alice (your direct ancestor) was with Thos Benjamin Evenett and their relationship was cousins. I think I traced Thos Benj back to father Charles born Waltham Abbey; for Alice and Thos Benj to be cousins their father's would have been brothers. Can we find baptisms for Charles and William brothers born Waltham area? If I'm going over ground you've already covered please say.

susan h
16-05-13, 20:25
I've ordered the death certificates for William Alexander and Ann Harriet. Lets see what they reveal!!


Oh yes, let's hope the informants are family members and therefore offer a clue.

dermotdjt
23-05-13, 12:03
Well I have now received the death certificates for both Ann and William.

Ann Harriett Evennett
10 April 1871
23 Southamption Street East
Wife of William Evennett, a Carman
Informant - E Bale, Priest at the death
Cause - Bronchitis, Asthma, Anasarca (extreme generalized edema)

William Alexander Evennett
10 October 1871
15 Southampton Street East
A Carman
Informant - X The mark of Fanny E?, present at the death. 26 Southampton Street East
Cause - Albuminuria ascites

I think taking the 1871 Census, the bpaptism records and the death certificates as a whole it is safe to say that Ann and William are the parents of the three children, Alice, Clara and William. It is intersting to note that William Alexanders baptism occured 2 days before his death and that of his children after his death.

The baptisms all occured at St Peter's Church, Kennington Lane, Vauxhall, Lambeth, perhaps a 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile from there home in Southampton Street East. The church is still there and looking online I've discovered that when it was built in 1863-64 there was an orphanage adjacent to it. Perhaps the middle name change of the girls was to do with them entering this orphanage.

I have emailed what is now St Peter's heritage Centre with the hope they may be able to guide me to the orphanage records. May be I can find if and when they entered and when they left.

D

dermotdjt
23-05-13, 12:24
Well I have now received the death certificates for both Ann and William.

Ann Harriett Evennett
10 April 1871
23 Southamption Street East
Wife of William Evennett, a Carman
Informant - E Bale, Priest at the death
Cause - Bronchitis, Asthma, Anasarca (extreme generalized edema)

William Alexander Evennett
10 October 1871
15 Southampton Street East
A Carman
Informant - X The mark of Fanny E?, present at the death. 26 Southampton Street East
Cause - Albuminuria ascites

I think taking the 1871 Census, the baptism records and the death certificates as a whole it is safe to say that Ann and William are the parents of the three children, Alice, Clara and William. It is intersting to note that William Alexanders baptism occured 2 days before his death and that of his children after his death.

The baptisms all occured at St Peter's Church, Kennington Lane, Vauxhall, Lambeth, perhaps a 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile from there home in Southampton Street East. The church is still there and looking online I've discovered that when it was built in 1863-64 there was an orphanage adjacent to it. Perhaps the middle name change of the girls was to do with them entering this orphanage.

I have emailed St Peter's with the hope they may be able to guide me to the orphanage records. May be I can find if and when they entered and when they left.

D

susan h
23-05-13, 22:44
I have emailed St Peter's with the hope they may be able to guide me to the orphanage records. May be I can find if and when they entered and when they left. D

Good luck, D. And I'm pleased to hear the death cert's are the correct ones.