Can anyone decipher handwriting from this 1705 indenture?

[Richard in Perth]

Most of the form is printed, but the top lines are hand-written and they identify the indentured person, his father and his home town. As far as I can tell it reads:

"Thomas Buss son of Thomas Buss of West ??????? in the county of Surry victualler doth put himself apprentice to Timothy Raines...." etc.

Can anyone identify the place name in Surrey? If it's my man, then he was baptised in Kingston upon Thames on 16th May 1689 - however, I can't find a place in that area that even remotely looks like the scribble on this indenture. Anyone got any ideas of where it might be?

[SmallTownGirl]

According to Genuki, there are only two parishes in Surrey that start with West. West Horsley and West Molesley. The initial letter looks more like an H than an M to me.

Edited to say : Sorry, make that three. West Clandon, but that doesn't seem to fit the bill either.

[Richard in Perth]

Thanks SmallTownGirl

West Molesley is closer geographically to Kingston - only about 5km as the crow flies. But I agree, the handwriting does look more like West Horsley to me. I still think it's the right person as his apprenticeship was with a painter-stainer, which is the occupation that was followed by two of the sons of my Thomas. I guess he must have moved around a bit!

cheers
Richard

[Gwyn in Kent]

I would say the place name starts with an M....There seem to be too many tall strokes for an H.

Gwyn

[Guest]

agree its something Horsley

[Night Owl]

A Thomas Buss will is on TNA - dated 1699, a victualler of West Molesey, Surrey

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details/D655866?descriptiontype=Full&ref=PROB+11/452/8

Also, this is interesting

http://artworld.york.ac.uk/personView.do?personUrn=1.03484&browseChar=B&dc=all

[Guest]

East.jpgwest.jpgagree its something Horsley this list gives east and west areas in Surrey

[Guest]

how do you do it Jackie ??? clever girl

[Night Owl]

how do you do it Jackie ??? clever girl

Google - when I get stuck it sometimes comes up trumps

[Richard in Perth]

Thanks Jackie - brilliant - West Molesey it is then! Off to download that will right now

Cheers,
Richard

[Richard in Perth]

Got that will now...

Thomas senior had 3 sons under 15 years old in 1699 - Thomas, Richard & Henry. That ties in with the Thomas from the indenture who would have been around 15 at that time (1705), and also with the baptism I have for Thomas in Kingston in 1689. So it all seems to fit! Also, Thomas senior specifically mentions that the money he left his sons (£10 each) was to be spent "putting them apprentice to some lawful trade or calling" so that also fits in well. As a bonus, the will also names his wife (Elizabeth) - I didn't have her name before as the baptism register only named the father. So, all in all, that was £3.36 well spent!

[Night Owl]

Great to be able to find documentary evidence that far back. I found a couple of mine on there last week from the early 1800s so I'll be downloading those soon.

[Richard in Perth]

This family have produced quite a gold mine of info so far - Thomas junior's son also left a will, in which he named his 2 brothers and their two sons (his nephews). One of the brothers was a cordwainer and his apprenticeship details are on Ancestry; another married by licence and that is also on there, giving his occupation (a painter, like his father and brother). Also they seem to have stayed in the Twickenham area for a while, and appear to be the only Buss family there, so they have been relatively easy to sort out from the LMA parish records. Ironic thing is that they were a complete brick wall until a few days ago, when I finally found my 3g-grandmother's baptism (I'm sure it wasn't on Ancestry last time I looked - I think they must have added the early Twickenham records recently?). Now I'm back to the 17th Century on this line!