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My brick wall - a puzzle for all you super sleuths out there!

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  • My brick wall - a puzzle for all you super sleuths out there!

    I have brought this to other people and no one has ever been able to help me.

    I am looking for an information on Amelia Brush. All I can tell you about Amelia is that she married a man named William Leonard and had a child named George Leonard in 1885-1887. All were born and raised in New York from what I understand. I have absolutely no birth dates for Amelia or William. I have marriage and death certificates for their son Geroge which is where I got the names of his parents. Please note that Amelia is also listed as Ann on one of the forms.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    what about census records?

    Comment


    • #3
      How about this one in 1880 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=39072643

      Amelia M. Brush
      Age: 21
      Birth Year: abt 1859
      Birthplace: New York
      Home in 1880: New York City, New York, New York
      Race: White
      Gender: Female
      Relation to Head of House: Daughter
      Marital Status: Single
      Father's Name: Martin H. Brush
      Father's Birthplace: New York
      Mother's Name: Louise H. Brush
      Mother's Birthplace: New York


      Or this one in 1870 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=23833188

      Amelia Brush
      Age in 1870: 8
      Birth Year: abt 1862
      Birthplace: New York
      Home in 1870: New York Ward 7 District 9, New York, New York
      Race: White
      Gender: Female
      Post Office: New York City

      What is the exact date of George's birth?

      Margaret

      Comment


      • #4
        might be that we won't get any replies at the moment, as New Jersey is -4/5 hours from us, [thats if NJ stands for New Jersey!!, though I can't think of much else that it could be!]
        Julie
        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

        .......I find dead people

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
          might be that we won't get any replies at the moment, as New Jersey is -4/5 hours from us, [thats if NJ stands for New Jersey!!, though I can't think of much else that it could be!]
          No I was thinking that just now.

          Margaret

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
            No I was thinking that just now.

            Margaret
            :smilee:
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you for the replies. I do not have an exact birthdate for George - it was not listed on his death certificate. Any census reports I have are after George married his wife Ellen. When I get home (as I am currently at work) I can upload (if that is allowed) the 2 documents I have in my possession.

              The 1862 birth date is the 1870 census listed above seems the most likely since George was born between 1885 and 1887.

              NJ does in fact stand for New Jersey ;D

              Thank you for everything!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MicaDsGirl View Post
                Thank you for the replies. I do not have an exact birthdate for George - it was not listed on his death certificate. Any census reports I have are after George married his wife Ellen. When I get home (as I am currently at work) I can upload (if that is allowed) the 2 documents I have in my possession.

                The 1862 birth date is the 1870 census listed above seems the most likely since George was born between 1885 and 1887.

                NJ does in fact stand for New Jersey ;D

                Thank you for everything!
                If you do not have George's birth certificate how do you know his parents' names? If they are given on his death certificate how sure can you be that they are correct/accurate?

                You can upload to here but it's best to use something like Photobucket where you can then give the link to the image -attachments to posts are often too small to read.

                Bear in mind any copyright restrictions on the documents you have.

                For the two Amelia Brush records either of them would be right because they both were of childbearing age in 1885-1887.

                Margaret
                Last edited by margaretmarch; 03-05-13, 20:08.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                  If you do not have George's birth certificate how do you know his parents' names? If they are given on his death certificate how sure can you be that they are correct/accurate?

                  You can upload to here but it's best to use something like Photobucket where you can then give the link to the image -attachments to posts are often too small to read.

                  Bear in mind any copyright restrictions on the documents you have.

                  For the two Amelia Brush records either of them would be right because they both were of childbearing age in 1885-1887.

                  Margaret
                  I have George's marriage and death certificate - both of which lists parents names although his mother is referred to as Amelia on one and Ann on the other.

                  I have the certificates saved as .pdf files so Photobucket won't work but I will figure something out.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have seen the marriage and death cert for George on a tree on Ancestry. That is most likely yours Not sure if an Ancestry link will work but would not like to try this with someone else's tree wihout permission.

                    I note the 1892 census which has George orphaned at that time. Do you know this to be definitely your George?



                    The 1890 Federal census has not survived but there was a Police Census for 1890 which covered some areas. Can't see William and Amelia with George on it but it did not cover all areas.

                    Vera

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mica - not all of us are using photobucket, so posting details, or links to online pages (e.g., ancestry or familysearch) is useful, too.

                      Ok, just found the records you have ancestry.

                      I notice that the marriage record shows that they were married at St John's church (I think?), and the person performing the ceremony was James H M????, Catholic Priest. Have you tried contacting the diocese or church?
                      Last edited by PhotoFamily; 04-05-13, 06:50.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MicaDsGirl View Post
                        I have George's marriage and death certificate - both of which lists parents names although his mother is referred to as Amelia on one and Ann on the other.

                        I have the certificates saved as .pdf files so Photobucket won't work but I will figure something out.
                        If you can take a screenshot of the pdf docs that should then save as a jpeg image for photobucket.

                        Margaret

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                          I have seen the marriage and death cert for George on a tree on Ancestry. That is most likely yours Not sure if an Ancestry link will work but would not like to try this with someone else's tree wihout permission.

                          I note the 1892 census which has George orphaned at that time. Do you know this to be definitely your George?



                          The 1890 Federal census has not survived but there was a Police Census for 1890 which covered some areas. Can't see William and Amelia with George on it but it did not cover all areas.

                          Vera
                          Found this http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2010...about-the-l-1/ about St John's Asylum which is the address for the 1892 census record - makes sad reading.

                          Might be worth pursuing whether any admission records/files are still kept and if they can be accessed.

                          Margaret

                          PS the article mentions a mother visiting her son so not all the children were orphans just in there because they couldn't be cared for at home - maybe one parent dead.
                          Last edited by margaretmarch; 04-05-13, 09:20.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Mica,

                            do you have Williams Death cert at all?

                            Name: William Leonard
                            Birth Date: abt 1860
                            Age: 36
                            Death Date: 15 Dec 1896
                            Death Place: New York, New York
                            Certificate Number: 40249



                            it might help and give some pointers as to where/what Amelia is living/doing etc...

                            After seeing the Marriage & Death Certs for George, I would think it highly likely that if Ellen was giving the details of Georges death then she got muddled or couldn't remember exactly what his mothers name was.. which is why it said ANN and not AMELIA. ...yet on his marriage cert, it clearly states Amelia as his mother and William as his father.
                            Julie
                            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                            .......I find dead people

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                              If you can take a screenshot of the pdf docs that should then save as a jpeg image for photobucket.

                              Margaret
                              here you go Margaret, if you click on the link it'll take you to the tree and then you can have a look at the documents

                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              .......I find dead people

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                here you go Margaret, if you click on the link it'll take you to the tree and then you can have a look at the documents

                                http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/270...son/1980899886
                                Thanks for that but I notice that tree is not Mica's although it does have some stuff she has uploaded - they have been copied by that tree owner.

                                I think Mica's tree is private.

                                Margaret

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  This draft card may be relevant http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...c=&pid=8931739

                                  It gives a name of George Francis Leonard born 20 March 1885 wife Helen and gives the same address as that for the marriage.

                                  Margaret

                                  PS see that this record has been saved to the tree but as evidence of residence rather than anything else.

                                  PPs the tree does not reflect the correct dob for George nor his full name.
                                  Last edited by margaretmarch; 04-05-13, 10:44.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Discover your family history. Explore the world’s largest collection of free family trees, genealogy records and resources.






                                    Found this on FS but not sure if it is the same George as 1892 as dob March 1883 and father b Ireland

                                    Vera
                                    Last edited by vera2013; 04-05-13, 18:09.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      For the record, these are the links to my 2 documents :
                                      George's Death Certificate: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/11902...pl=pid%7cpgNum


                                      George & Ellen's Marriage Certificate: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/11902...pl=pid%7cpgNum


                                      I have seen the 1892 census where a George Leonard is listed in an orphange - I am still researching this possibility. I know that there was a fire that was suffered there - may reach out to see if they have any records. I have never seen a Police Census - do you know where I could find that?


                                      I am not sure if the church is St. James or St. Johns - as in Manhattan it could be any!


                                      I have no death certificate for William at all - I will take a look at what Darksecretz posted although I can not access any information on the ancestry.co.uk sites.


                                      Darksecretz - you said you saw my information on someone else's tree? Can you provide me the name of that person? There should only be one other person with this information linked and she is a family member working on her tree.


                                      I will delve into all you have posted - I greatly appreciate your help. George has remained quite the enigma to my family, and his parents even more so because he never spoke of them. According to family lore, there was some sort of disagreement and George spent many years distanced from his mother - when he finally went back to see her she had already passed and he was unaware.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hello

                                        I was able to access the 1890 Police Census via Ancestry with subscription. I think you can also access some info from the Family Search site.



                                        Vera

                                        Comment

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