Still looking for Rachel.......

[Saree69]

Hi Guys,

Hope you are all well

I'm still looking for Rachel Mary Williams(1884) the biological mother of my paternal Grandfather Marcus James Williams (24/11/1911 - 2/7/1992)(otherwise known as Marcus James Channon). After visiting Ebbw Vale Archives, and finding her dob 1884 - I ordered the only birth cert that was applicable to 1884 in Newport (Newport covered a few area's at that time), from Caerphilly reg office. Birth Cert says Rachel Mary Williams born 30/11/1884 in Trinant Monmouthshire, d/o Henry Williams and Jane Williams formerly Stranks. Stranks is easy to trace, Jane's father James came from Buckinghamshire presumeably to be a coal miner/hewer. However I'm still stuck on Rachel. There are way to many possibilities for Rachel to even try to pin her down either marrying or staying single. I have been in touch with members of the Stranks families in Canada and Australia but none of them seem to know what happened to Rachel.

I was hoping that some of you guys on this forum would maybe have some suggestions how to proceed - or that maybe one of the Stranks family have seen this and could help me out as family history seems to be an ever increasing popular hobby for people to take part in.

Thanks in Advance

Kind regards

Sarah

[Guest]

was Marcus adopted then ? as he is in somebodies tree on Ancestry with different parents ? also did you know that Marcus was a prisoner of war ? just found the record on FMP

[kylejustin]

presumably you know rachel's birth year and place from the 1911 census? how many rachel william's married near marcus' birthplace (reg district)? you could track them down as best you can, and see if any deaths fit with what you have on rachel.

[margaretmarch]

presumably you know rachel's birth year and place from the 1911 census? how many rachel william's married near marcus' birthplace (reg district)? you could track them down as best you can, and see if any deaths fit with what you have on rachel.

Saree has Rachel's birth certificate and knows her parents - it's just that there are too many with her name in the marriage/death index to identify her.

If Saree has her in the 1911 then might be possible to track her at that address through the electoral rolls to see when she leaves and maybe then look for marriages/deaths around that time to discount earlier ones at least.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

was Marcus adopted then ? as he is in somebodies tree on Ancestry with different parents ? also did you know that Marcus was a prisoner of war ? just found the record on FMP

Yes, he was adopted and had the name Channon through his life.

Here's the Williams family in 1901 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...d&pid=31711734 no Rachel.

Here's Rachel in 1911 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...rc=&pid=617296 she's a servant living in Panteg Pontypool.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Could this be Rachel's mother in 1911 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...rc=&pid=455645 Henry has died but she has 4 of her sons living with her.

The address for the birth of Marcus is the next fact that can be used to look for Rachel.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

Here's a likely death for Henry

Henry Williams
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1904
Age at Death: 47
Registration district: Newport
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 150

Might be worth seeing where he's buried and who else is there with him.

Margaret

[Saree69]

Hi Val,

Yes Marcus was adopted unoffically at some point, by Fred and Alice Channon, the trees on Ancestry 2 are mine and the others I know off are related to my grandfather Marcus's wife my Granmother (Evelyn May Wood 30.3.1913 - 1.1.1997). Yes I know Grampy was a pow my dad told me as he didn't return until my dad was 7 years old.

[Saree69]

Hi Margaret,

Yes I believe that cenus is Rachel's mother Jane with her 4 sons and Henry has died, strangly it says Jane was born in Trinant Abercarne Parish which is wrong she was born in Buckinghamshire. The address of grampy Marcus's birth cert is Newport Union Workhouse, the workhouse master Evan Davis registered the birth in January 1912, so unfortunately there is no where to go on with the address.

Thanks

Sarah

[Saree69]

Hi again Margaret,

Your cenus entries are correct for 1901 and 1911, I haven't been able to find out where Rachel was in 1901 thou as she is not with the rest of her family. On the 1911 Census she is a servant for David and Sarah Lougher (nee Lewis) who I'm pretty sure was from Trinant/Abercarne just like Rachel and I'm sure she lived either in the same street or a close by street to Rachel's family before she married David Lougher. The only other person on the Loughers census is William James Eastup from Abergavenny a groom aged 17, he died in the first world war. I have considered the possibility that William James Eastup was grampy Marcus's father as the place where they were living is very rural now and would have been even more so in 1911, however that is just a possibility maybe my brain working overtime.

[Saree69]

Exactly Margaret,

There are so many girls with her name thats is nigh on impossible to say which one she is. I have trawled through all the marriages and death index's on Ancestry and the probate records but to no avail. Electroral rolls are a good idea I guess I need to spend some time in Newport Library to see if she is on any of them. What I'm pretty sure of is that in 1911 she was with the Loughers in Pantaeg, she then is listed in the admission and discharge book of Newport Union Workhouse on September 25th 1911, Grampy Marcus is born 24/11/1911 at 6.10pm, Baptised the same evening (which I thought was a bit strange unless the worst was expected). Rachel spent Christmas and New year in the Workhouse and was discharged on January 26th 1912 with Marcus. Then Marcus was re-admitted the next day (Jan 27th 1912) and left there. He was then fostered by a lady called Sarah Hughes of 5 Livingstone Place Newport. Then at some point after that he was "given" to Fred and Alice however there was no date in the book at the Archives so it could of been anytime, weeks months years until Fred and Alice took over his care. After that the trail runs cold on Rachel.

[Saree69]

Hi Kyle,

There was only this Rachel I'm looking for that was born in 1884 in the Newport area, the other one listed in the same index was born miles and miles away although still in Wales. The problem I have found with looking at Death's is that if the person was not married or didn't have any close kin, the death informant may not have known the middle name, so her death could be registered as Rachel Williams, Rachel M Williams or Rachel Mary Williams, and that of course is indeed if she didn't marry. The same with marriage's sometimes middle names are not put down as the full name only the initial. I wonder if I will ever get any closer to finding out who she was and what happened to her......

[Saree69]

Yes I think that is the correct Death for Henry Williams Margaret, I was thinking along the same lines as driving up to Abercarn cemetary ( I think there is only one) and having a look at the graves, that could help as I don't really have anything else to go on.

Thanks

Sarah

[margaretmarch]

I was also looking at anyone with a first name or surname of Marcus in the area at the time in case that was a clue as it seems an unusual name for the time.

Nothing jumped out at me especially since we can't find Rachel in 1901 - she could have gone anywhere in the UK and only came back in 1911 because she was pregnant and needed help from friends/relatives.

Margaret

[Saree69]

Hi again Margaret,

I too have looked on the 1911 Census for anyone called Marcus either Christian or Surname ( as i'm aware unmarried mothers sometimes used the fathers name as the baby's Christian or middle name), but haven't got anywhere with that *sigh* - yes Marcus was an unusual choice of name in 1911 even now I don't think its that common well not in the UK, definately not in Wales. The only men I could find on the 1911 census called Marcus were either members of Polish or Russian imigrants to the UK which is really of no help, and they all lived in the main town's Newport, Cardiff etc, no where near where Rachel was. According to my maths if my Grampy Marcus was born on 24/11/1911 assuming full term delivery Rachel would have conceived in March or April 1911, and when the 1911 Census was taken on 2/4/1911 she was with the Loughers in Panteg, she could of been pregnant already and just commenced work with them or had been working for them for some time its very hard to speculate, I think it is time to look in the library to see if Rachel was living with the Loughers before 1911, However saying that I'm sure Newport Library only has voters lists from 1917 or 1918 (previously went in there to see where Fred and Alice were living). If I could find Rachel in 1901 that may help. Also there is a tree on Ancestry of Sarah Lougher (nee Lewis) with a photo of her at the house where Rachel was working for them "The Elms" Llangibby is the house name - noted is Sarah, and there are 2 other ladies in the photo which are not mentioned - I did wonder if one of them was Rachel - again my mind working overtime. I checked David and Sarah Loughers wills and Sarah died first leaving her 59k to her husband and then David died leaving all of his 70 odd k to the bank, just checked in case they had left anything to Rachel, sadly they didn't.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

The probate records shown on Ancestry only list the executors/administrators, not the beneficiaries - you have to get copies of the will itself to see who inherited...... With regard to the electoral rolls and your findings, women aged 30 yrs and over first gained the vote in 1918 and women aged 21 and over in 1928. (This impacts on using the electoral rolls as a finding device for locating women.)

[kylejustin]

is it possible rachel emmigrated? ireland, scotland, the states, australia?