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  • Portnery/Portnary?

    I have an Eliza Portnary marrying John Smith Avery at St James, Bristol in 1927 (familysearch) and also the birth certificate of their son John Smith Avery in St Augustine, Bristol in 1940 giving Eliza's name as Portnery.In the 1841 census Eliza appears to come from out of county and she has died by 1851. There appear to be no other living children from the marriage.i keep hitting a brick wall with finding anything more about Eliza and can find nothing about the Portnery/Portnary family.it has been suggested that the name should be Portrey- but the birth certificate definitely has Portnery and 11 years earlier at the wedding, it obviously sounded the same. Could it be Portanery- there are a couple of marriage/deaths but no census records in this name.Any ideas please?

  • #2
    What about Portnoy? The "er" could be a badly written "o".

    OC

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    • #3
      I am confused which Eliza is dead by 1851 ?

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      • #4
        I think you mean 1827 and 1840 not 1927 and 1940 ?

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        • #5
          there is some Portnory's on FMP in the USA

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          • #6
            and quite a few Portnoy's as OC says.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Val wish Id never started View Post
              I think you mean 1827 and 1840 not 1927 and 1940 ?
              Oops! Yes of course, 1827/40 rather than 1927/40- I really shouldn't stay up so late!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                What about Portnoy? The "er" could be a badly written "o".

                OC
                Thank you for looking- I have closely studied the name again, and compared the 'er' with other letters and it does seem correct. I have also shown it to others and they also think it says Portnery.

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                • #9
                  But the certificate you have is not an original, it has been copied by a clerk at the GRO and the name may have morphed from Portnoy to Portnery in transcription.

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    Yes - I had forgotten that, thanks.

                    i will have a look at this variation too.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by beadsmore View Post
                      Yes - I had forgotten that, thanks.

                      i will have a look at this variation too.
                      Are there any witnesses on the certificate that could help pinpoint Eliza? are they related to her or him?

                      What is Eliza's age in the 1841 and can you give a reference so we can look please?

                      Margaret
                      Last edited by margaretmarch; 30-04-13, 07:51.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                        Are there any witnesses on the certificate that could help pinpoint Eliza? are they related to her or him?

                        What is Eliza's age in the 1841 and can you give a reference so we can look please?

                        Margaret
                        daft question ref the marriage record as it will be the parish record not a GRO cert - duhh!

                        Found them on the 1841 where she is shown as age 33, so probable year of birth 1808.

                        Margaret

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                        • #13
                          Hmm, not so sure about Portnoy now - it appears to be an exclusively Jewish surname AND....there isn't a single mention of it on Freebmd before about 1900!

                          However, there isn't a single mention at all anywhere on Freebmd of Portnary/Portnery, so I think that surname is a transcription error.

                          I couldn't find the marriage on familysearch but I am a bit clumsy with the new siteCan you give a link to the marriage you found, please. I did spot another possible child to the couple though, a Robert, baptised 1843(?).

                          Wild card...there was a much later baptism in Bristol of a somebody PORTER AVERY. I wonder - Portnary = Porter

                          OC

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                            Hmm, not so sure about Portnoy now - it appears to be an exclusively Jewish surname AND....there isn't a single mention of it on Freebmd before about 1900!

                            However, there isn't a single mention at all anywhere on Freebmd of Portnary/Portnery, so I think that surname is a transcription error.

                            I couldn't find the marriage on familysearch but I am a bit clumsy with the new siteCan you give a link to the marriage you found, please. I did spot another possible child to the couple though, a Robert, baptised 1843(?).

                            Wild card...there was a much later baptism in Bristol of a somebody PORTER AVERY. I wonder - Portnary = Porter

                            OC
                            I couldn't get that marriage record up on familysearch either and nothing at all for Portnery/ary.
                            Margaret

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                            • #15
                              Hmmmm! I have had a quick look for the record and I can't find it either at the moment!

                              i know it was definitely on familysearch but I am also struggling to use the new version- I can't find several records that I know were on there.

                              i have a busy day again today and need to get sorted for work so I can't spend the time looking right now. I will look again later.

                              How annoying!

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                              • #16
                                The marriage you found on FS may have been a submitted record. I believe those submissions have been removed from the searchable site (but are still available somehow to LDS church members).

                                OC

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                                • #18
                                  How did you get that result Vera? I tried searching the name Portnery and Portnary but absolutely nothing came up. Even tried John Avery and the year and again nothing.

                                  As your link was loading on my screen it did flash up that it was a record from a submitted genealogy file which could mean someone has done a tree and sent the details to the LDS. Submitted records are also by LDS volunteers who have looked through as many records as they could to build up the database and for some of the births for instance they guessed a year from a date of death or marriage so a bit like other sites where the year is calculated from an age.

                                  The records use to say whether they were extracted from Parish Registers or submitted.

                                  Margaret

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                                  • #19
                                    Do you know Margaret I never use that site because I find it so difficult. I was trying to log on and couldn't. So went from Google to the site and then search and just put in basic info ie Eliza Portnery and up it popped 'just like that'.

                                    So Margaret are you saying that submitted records can be trusted in some cases ie if an LDS Volunteer loads it or are the only ones to be trusted the ones that have the Parish records to back them.

                                    I am aware people make good use of this site but not me because I can't find a way to search easily and get results for the specific areas I want.

                                    Vera

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                                    • #20
                                      Originally posted by vera2013 View Post
                                      Do you know Margaret I never use that site because I find it so difficult. I was trying to log on and couldn't. So went from Google to the site and then search and just put in basic info ie Eliza Portnery and up it popped 'just like that'.

                                      So Margaret are you saying that submitted records can be trusted in some cases ie if an LDS Volunteer loads it or are the only ones to be trusted the ones that have the Parish records to back them.

                                      I am aware people make good use of this site but not me because I can't find a way to search easily and get results for the specific areas I want.

                                      Vera
                                      No I wouldn't say the submitted ones are to be trusted but used as a guide.

                                      The extracted ones should be correct barring mis transcriptions as for other transcribed records. What these records do is point you to the exact location of the original record so you can get a copy either from their microfiche films or wherever the original register is held.

                                      I used to love their site but all the recent changes have made it very hard to find anything!


                                      Margaret

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