Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Marriage (or non-marriage) in 18th century

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Marriage (or non-marriage) in 18th century

    Hi all,

    Has anybody ever come across two people not being married, but openly living as a couple in the 18th century?

    One of my ancestor's was John Wyatt, who I believe was born at Weeford in 1765. His baptism says "John Wyatt the son of James Wyatt and Elizabeth Sommerford". This would strike me as meaning that James and Elizabeth were not married, but as they have four children, and lived in the mid 18th century I would find this hard to believe.

    I have been through the records for Weeford, and James and Elizabeth's children are the only one's described in this way. There were four in total, two James' and two John's. Every other child born out of wedlock is listed as being the illegitimate (or words to that effect) of the mother, no father mentioned.

    I feel I should also point out that the Wyatt family were one of the principle families in Weeford at the time, James' brother John was an early industrialist/inventor, and his nephew was the famous James Wyatt who was an architect. I don't know if this would have any bearing on the situation.

    Any feedback would be much appreciated.

    Tippin
    Families Intrested in
    Archer (DBY), Bannister (SFK/STS), Br(o/a)mley (DBY), Darrall (SAL/WAR), Florence (STS), Freeman (WAR), Grimsdell (BKM/STS), Knight (WAR), Sheldrake (SKF), Simpson (LND/STS), Smith (SFK/WAR/WOR), Tatham (LND), Tippin(s) (HEF/WAR), Wagstaff (DBY/NTT), Whitefoot (SAL/WAR)

  • #2
    The description of parents in parish registers is very variable. I have seen parents described as say John and Mary Smith as well as William Jones and Mary White (made up names!) even when there is a proven earlier marriage for them. Guess this is just the vicar's way of recording the maiden name.

    On the registration of illigitmate children, I have just posted in another thread that someone didn't have his father named on his birth certificate (post 1837), but his father was named in the parish register for his baptism, which happened before his parents eventually married.

    Don't know if this helps, or just adds to your confusion!
    Last edited by PeteW1959; 09-04-13, 14:38.
    Co-ordinator for PoW project Southern Region 08
    Researching:- Wieland, Habbes, Saettele, Bowinkelmann, Freckenhauser, Dilger in Germany
    Kincaid, Warner, Hitchman, Collie, Curtis, Pocock, Stanley, Nixey, McDonald in London, Berks, Bucks, Oxon and West Midlands
    Drake, Beals, Pritchard in Kent
    Devine in Ireland

    Comment


    • #3
      There certainly were unmarried couples living together for all sorts of reasons, but these were not the norm.

      I would say that the wording in the register could be interpreted as an unmarried couple - but not necessarily. The fact that other illegitimate children are clearly identified would suggest this is a married couple, and for some reason the vicar has chosen to include the family name of the mother ..did she come from another notable local family, or is there any suggestion the family were catholic, or other non-conformists ?

      There is an excellent book "Marriage Law for Genealogists" by Rebecca Probert - she quotes extensive research that shows that only about 2% of births were outside marriage at the beginning of the C18th and the figure only rose to just over 5% by the year 1800. I think we all assume the figures to be much higher, but the statistics show otherwise. The probability is that they were married, but you may need to widen your search from the home parish to find the record.
      Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
      Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

      Comment


      • #4
        Most of the Vicars I have seen, pulled no punches and the births would be recorded as illegitimate, no messing.

        The exception to that rule that I personally know of, is a baptism of an illegitimate grandchild of a local bigwig. the child is described as "child of Joe Bloggs and Mary Smith, natural grandchild of Arthur Bloggs". As Arthur Bloggs paid the vicar's stipend, I've no doubt he brought pressure to bear on the manner in which his grandchild was described!

        OC

        Comment


        • #5
          If the Wyatts were big cheeses in Weeford, then it's possible that the cleric felt obliged to make a bit more of the baptism entries than usual and included Elizabeth's maiden name. Or could Sommerford be Elizabeth's middle name?
          Last edited by SmallTownGirl; 09-04-13, 18:47. Reason: remove errant apostrophe
          Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SmallTownGirl View Post
            . Or could Sommerford be Elizabeth's middle name?
            That's a good question .....
            Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
            Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AntonyM View Post
              That's a good question .....
              I thank you!
              Always looking for Goodwins in Berkshire.

              Comment


              • #8
                I haven't come across this on baptism records, but one of OH's direct lines has all the birth certs after the first one listing Mr and Mrs Taylor nee Bingham as parents I hunted high and low for their marriage, only to find it 11 years after the birth of the first child named Taylor.
                Barbara

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi all,

                  Thanks for your comments. They have certainly given me something to think about.

                  I have come across records that have shown the mother's maiden name before, especially in Suffolk, but the four entries I am looking at were 'individual', and not like any other entry around them. Thank you AnthonyM for pointing out she may have came from another notable family, thanks to google I have found a place called Somerford Hall which is about 18 miles from Weeford - you never know!!

                  OC -I have though of this, and had presumed that as the Wyatt's were one of the 'big three' families in Weeford, the vicar have made more of a tactful entry into the register regarding James' illegitimate children. I just find it strange that they seem to take the name Wyatt instead of Somerford if this was the case.

                  Small Town Girl - I had never thought that Somerford could be Elizabeth's middle name. I guess I just looked at the entry and though it was her surname straight away. I guess I will have to check the entries around the dates to see how they are written - were they son of Joe Bloggs and Mary, or son of Joe and Mary Bloggs!! I had noted an entry in the NBI which was for a burial of an Elizabeth Somerford in 1804 - but now I am starting to wonder if there may be an Elizabeth Somerford Wyatt lurking somewhere.

                  Many thanks once again for all your contributions. I started with only one hypothesis at 2 o'clock - now I have three!

                  Tippin
                  Families Intrested in
                  Archer (DBY), Bannister (SFK/STS), Br(o/a)mley (DBY), Darrall (SAL/WAR), Florence (STS), Freeman (WAR), Grimsdell (BKM/STS), Knight (WAR), Sheldrake (SKF), Simpson (LND/STS), Smith (SFK/WAR/WOR), Tatham (LND), Tippin(s) (HEF/WAR), Wagstaff (DBY/NTT), Whitefoot (SAL/WAR)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Did Elizabeth's family come from the same parish? If not, the marriage is likely to be in her parish, rather than the groom's.

                    Christine
                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      They could use any surname they wished. There is no concept of a legal surname in English law. As they were the acknowledged children of Mr Wyatt, then I'm sure everyone would call them by that surname.

                      OC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've just been Googling and came across a couple of interesting entries - you may already have this information. I don't know where the auctioneer got the information about Elizabeth being an heiress and the auction was in 2009 but I wonder whether this fact was why she was named in this way in the baptism record.

                        Upcoming auctions from Bamfords Auctioneers & Valuers.View lots, leave bids, request condition reports, telephone bids and live bidding.


                        This is also interesting but seems to talk about Somerford Hall in Cheshire (near Congleton I think). Perhaps there was more than one?

                        Jackie

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The parish records of Jersey were annotated that way, i.e. James, son of James Hamon and Elizabeth Du Prez. Then the grandparents were added in as well.

                          Made for very easy genealogical research for half of my family.
                          Whoever said Seek and Ye shall find was not a genealogist.

                          David

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i would say jackie has nailed it. elizabeth somerford was also an important person in her own right, and as such, was recorded that way.

                            i have seen many entries concerning gentry or upper classes, where more information than normal is recorded. the lascelles family are all over the harewood parish registers, they were earls or viscounts or something. all their entries are quite detailed.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, the marriage of my local bigwig was written twice as large as anyone else's and done in the vicar's very best writing, lol.

                              Nonconformist records almost always include the wife's maiden name at the baptism of her children.

                              OC

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thanks for your replies.

                                If Elizabeth was a heiress this would suggest that she was a member of the Somerford family from near Wolverhampton, as they definitely seem to have been important people. Of course, I don't know how much work the person selling the watch has put into their research, and they may well have assumed this when they say two names in the register (although it is reassuring that they have come up with the same result as me in regards to where John Wyatt was born - Lewis being my ancestor's brother).

                                Thinking about it though, would an heiress keep her surname even if married (presuming that the burial on the NBI is for John's mother)? And what would an heiress mean? Would it be a wealthy woman who wished/had to keep her surname?

                                Many thanks,
                                Tippin
                                Families Intrested in
                                Archer (DBY), Bannister (SFK/STS), Br(o/a)mley (DBY), Darrall (SAL/WAR), Florence (STS), Freeman (WAR), Grimsdell (BKM/STS), Knight (WAR), Sheldrake (SKF), Simpson (LND/STS), Smith (SFK/WAR/WOR), Tatham (LND), Tippin(s) (HEF/WAR), Wagstaff (DBY/NTT), Whitefoot (SAL/WAR)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  an heiress inherited a fortune, whether that be land, money or power. i don't think she would have used her own surname after marriage, that wasn't done in england, even with the upper classes. i think it simply a nod to her position in recording her maiden name at her children's baptisms. at that point in time, it was only illegitimate's or upper classes who surnames for both parents recorded.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thank you for telling me what an heiress was - it was a term I had come across before, but never looked up.
                                    I really hope the Elizabeth was not an heiress, as I think that would mean that I am looking at the wrong John Wyatt!

                                    Many thanks,
                                    Tippin
                                    Families Intrested in
                                    Archer (DBY), Bannister (SFK/STS), Br(o/a)mley (DBY), Darrall (SAL/WAR), Florence (STS), Freeman (WAR), Grimsdell (BKM/STS), Knight (WAR), Sheldrake (SKF), Simpson (LND/STS), Smith (SFK/WAR/WOR), Tatham (LND), Tippin(s) (HEF/WAR), Wagstaff (DBY/NTT), Whitefoot (SAL/WAR)

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X