This one is a bit difficult

[flashieboy]

I was asked by a friend if I could sort out a family mystery for her.............and I can't.:(

Could some of you super slueths have a look for me please.

The two questions she has is...............why do some trees have Charles Thurston married to Mary Ann Murray..........who is she?.....is there a third wife I have missed.

Why can't we find Mary Ann Casey in any census prior to her marriage.

Who is Charles Thurston in this 1871 census.........and who are his parents.

http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1871&indiv=try&h=12161079

This is the information I have so far.

Charles Deeks Thurston ...born 1818 Hingham Norfolk

Charles Deeks Thurston ......married Mary Ann Knight 11-8-1839 Bermondsey St Mary Magdelen.....his father Jeremiah (occ...cooper)....her father Daniel

Mary Ann Thurston ....nee Knights dies....possibly 1867

Charles Deeks remarries 21-7-1867.....to Mary Ann Casey.............he is aged 47 widow.................she is 38 spinster......his father Jeremiah.....hers James...(occ...fireman)

I apologise for posting and running...........I wont be able to come back and check until later tonight............thanks

[SmallTownGirl]

According to FreeBMD, Charles BOSWORTH Thurston married Mary Ann Murray in Camberwell Reg District in Q2 1852 (vol 1d, p. 690). So, p'raps it's just that other peeps have got their Charles Thurstons mixed up?

[flashieboy]

Thank you.... thank you............ thank you.......

I would say you are right.

One down.......

Now does anyone know who the mysterious Charles Thurston is in the 1871 census.

[SmallTownGirl]

I only have Ancestry UK, so can't view the 1871 image from your link. Can you provide more details, pls?

[SmallTownGirl]

Do you mean this one?http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=12161075

Maybe this is the one from the marriage I found earlier?

Could he be a cousin of "your" Charles?

[dicole]

Charles Deeks Thurston and his wife Mary Ann baptised three children on the same day - 29 Jan 1856 at St Matthew Bethnal Green
Walter Sidney born 25 April 1856, Charles Deeks born 29 Dec 1843 and Rebecca born 23 Feb 1851. Charles was a Carpenter and their abode was 1 Ann Place. (Same address given when he married Mary Ann Casey)

I agree, I think someone has mixed up their Charles Thurstons, and there are two different ones, Charles Bosworth THurston and Charles Deeks Thurston.
Charles Bosworth Thurston (architect, father Simon, architect) actually married Georgiana Robins, at St Giles Camberwell. (not Mary Ann Murray, although she is on the same page in Freebmd)

These images are all available on ancestry, so it would seem that whoever put these people in their trees has not ever re-checked for further information. I go through my trees all the time trawling for new records available on ancestry and elsewhere.

From familysearch. Charles Deeks Thurstons was baptised to Jeremiah and Diana Thurstons 21 April 1817 in Hingham Norfolk.

Di

[Chrissie Smiff]

There is also a Charles Deeks Thurston who was born in the same area of Norfolk in 1855 and died in the same area of Norfolk aged 18 in 1874.
I assume your Charles Deeks Thurston is the one whose death was presumably mistranscribed as Charles Dicks Thurston in March 1884 in Whitechapel aged 64?

[dicole]

"Who is Charles Thurston in this 1871 census.........and who are his parents.

http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bi...try&h=12161079"

He's a plasterer, so not Charles Deeks Thurston, who was a carpenter.

He might be Charles Lane Thurston baptised to William Lane Thurston and his wife Amy, 16 MAy 1818 Hingham Norfolk.

Jeremiah Thurston seems a fairly common name in Norfolk, but searching familysearch.com might find a link between Jeremiah and William.

Diane

[Chrissie Smiff]

If this is 'your' Charles Deeks Thurston in 1871 he seems to have named two children Charles. Charles Deeks Thurston in 1843 who married Frances Dawton in 1869, had no children and died in 1915 Bethan Green and also the Charles in the census who was born c1855.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LNDRG10_481_484-0075&fn=Charles&ln=Thurston&st=r&ssrc=&pid=12161075

[Chrissie Smiff]

"Who is Charles Thurston in this 1871 census.........and who are his parents.

http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bi...try&h=12161079"

He's a plasterer, so not Charles Deeks Thurston, who was a carpenter.

He might be Charles Lane Thurston baptised to William Lane Thurston and his wife Amy, 16 MAy 1818 Hingham Norfolk.

Jeremiah Thurston seems a fairly common name in Norfolk, but searching familysearch.com might find a link between Jeremiah and William.

Diane

It's the son Thomas who is a plasterer Diane, not the father Charles who is a carpenter.

[flashieboy]

I don't think they had two children named Charles.............the one in 1871 only appears in that census.

[Chrissie Smiff]

What about this one Flashie that Di found in post #6?

Charles Deeks Thurston and his wife Mary Ann baptised three children on the same day - 29 Jan 1856 at St Matthew Bethnal Green
Walter Sidney born 25 April 1856, Charles Deeks born 29 Dec 1843 and Reuben born 23 Feb 1851. Charles was a Carpenter and their abode was 1 Ann Place. (Same address given when he married Mary Ann Casey)

[flashieboy]

In 1871 that Charles Thurston was already married to Frances ...........so it can not be him.

http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=charles&gsln=thurston&msbdy=1843&msbpn__ftp=england&sbo=1&uidh=vy5&mssng0=frances&pcat=CEN_1870&h=12681836&db=uki1871&indiv=1

[Chrissie Smiff]

I know Flashie, it's all getting a bit odd because that Charles Thurston who is married to Frances is definitely the son - see the marriage cert -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_195106-00291&fn=Charles+Deeks&ln=Thurston&st=r&ssrc=&pid=2416827

[flashieboy]

This is why I have been unable to sort it out.

The age of the mystery Charles does not match the age of any of the children.............I first thought it maybe one of them using Charles as a middle name.

I can see on Ancestry trees that many others have been unable to sort it out either...........and have two children called Charles...............although this is not impossible I believe it is unlikely......as I can not find a birth that would be the mystery Charles.

I will have another look for the mystery Charles in the morning.

Thanks for looking.

[Chrissie Smiff]

I wonder if the charles in 1871 was actually a child born out of wedlock to Mary Ann Casey perhaps?

I have to go now Flashie but will look in when I can to see what anyone else has worked out. It's fascinating and I wish I had more time to delve further.

[dicole]

It's the son Thomas who is a plasterer Diane, not the father Charles who is a carpenter.

Sorry misread the census image.

Then this is the family in 1851, with the Charles age, 6 (Charles Deeks Thurston as baptised above)

http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=charles&gsln=thurston&mswpn__ftp=hingham+norfolk&msbdy=1817&sbo=1&uidh=7s2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=2073618&recoff=5+6&db=uki1851&indiv=1

This is them again in 1861 with Charles age 17, but no Charles between Walter and Arthur. Very strange.

http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=charles&gsln=thurston&mswpn__ftp=hingham+norfolk&msbdy=1817&sbo=1&uidh=7s2&pcat=CEN_1860&h=5687885&db=uki1861&indiv=1

But Charles born 1856 is still with them in 1881

http://search.ancestry.com.au/browse/view.aspx?dbid=7572&iid=LNDRG11_415_418-0065&pid=15043776&ssrc=&fn=Charles&ln=Thurston&st=g

[dicole]

Another batch of three baptised at St Matthew Bethnal Green on 3 Dec 1858, to Charles and Mary Anne (carpenter Ann Place) - Arthur (born 8 Oct 1857), Louisa (born 29 Jun 1847), Dianah (born 23 Apr 1848)

and then Alfred born 3 Dec 1860, baptised 6 January 1861.

[flashieboy]

I think the answer to the mystery Charles lies in Mary Ann Casey's back ground.

She did not marry Charles Thurston until 1867..........yet I can not find her on any prior census?

Nor a birth for a Mary Ann Casey with father James.

[dicole]

Well I did think that maybe the census enumerator may have just made a mistake, but Charles b 1856 is with Charles and Mary Ann Thurston again in 1881 !

So, it could be that Mary Ann Casey and Charles, were not named Casey before 1867, when she married Charles Thurston. Either she told fibs about her marital status, and/or fathers name. It's not unknown for people to make up relatives for marriage certificates.