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FFYNNON
04-04-13, 14:23
hello again.

i'm looking for lost people again.

John Stephen Webb. 1883? (my husbands step grandfather), all we know is that he was born in London (a cockney by all accounts)

I have the following for him.
marriage certificate... 20 DECEMBER 1913
JOHN STEPHEN WEBB aged 30 to MARY ANNE HARRIES aged 24
grooms father - William Stephen Webb
brides father - David Harries
witnessed by Elizabeth Harries (brides sister)
Herbert Webb (no idea who that was)

Military Record - short service
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1219&iid=31239_206237-00534&fn=John+Stephen&ln=Webb&st=r&ssrc=pt_t13591223_p371558846&pid=2084482

shows his age as 32 years 7 months in Dec 1915 - i calculate that he was born in May 1883

1911 census -Llanwnda - I think this is him
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2353/RG14_33253_0173_06/548226?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911wales%26h%3d548226%26ti%3 d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t135912 23_p371558846_kpidz0q3d371558846z0q26aidz0q3d81885 150416z0q26pgz0q3d32771z0q26pgplz0q3dpidz0q257caid&ssrc=pt_t13591223_p371558846_kpidz0q3d371558846z0q 26aidz0q3d81885150416z0q26pgz0q3d32771z0q26pgplz0q 3dpidz0q257caid&backlabel=ReturnRecord


and this may be him again in 1901 - Llanrhian
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7815&iid=PEMRG13_5131_5134-0149&fn=John&ln=Webb&st=r&ssrc=pt_t13591223_p371558846&pid=32770963

Death. 1956 Fishguard


Name:
John S Webb


Birth Date:
abt 1883


Date of Registration:
Oct-Nov-Dec 1956


Age at Death:
73


Registration district:
Haverfordwest


Inferred County:
Pembrokeshire


Volume:
8c


Page:
331




GRO can't find a birth record for a John Stephen Webb during 1883.
The only birth record that i can find is for a John Stephen F Webb or a John Stubley Webb in 1883

I've not been able to trace William Stephen Webb either.

I'm not familiar with London registration districts so its like looking blindfolded.

Can anyone point me in right direction please?

Ta very much

Ffynnon

PeteW1959
04-04-13, 15:36
The birth for John Stephen F Webb in 1883 is in the wrong registration district (Hendon) if the place on the 1911 census (Kentish Town) is correct.

As for him being 'cockney' that is a bit subjective and often misinterpreted. If he was born in Kentish Town then he is not technically a cockney as that should be within the sound of Bow Bells in the East End of London; Kentish Town is North West. However the term cockney is often misused outside London as a term for any Londoner, particularily a working class Londoner. I should know as I have spent most of my younger life being called a cockney when I wasn't born anywhere near the East End!

There are several candidates on the 1891 census for John Webb with father William and without knowing a bit more it is difficult to narrow down. Could Herbert on his marrige certificate be a brother?

FFYNNON
04-04-13, 16:10
Hi Pete

Yes the reference to 'cockney' wasn't something that i took too seriously as I had looked up Kentish Town.
Herbert could have been a brother, cousin or uncle - we have no idea.
Until we saw the marriage certificate we were not aware of any Herbert or the father being William Stephen.
We really don't know anything about him. my husband was only 9 when he died so doesn't have much info. I will need to trawl through those 1891 ones and see if there's anything that gives a clue.

As GRO can't find him in 1883 i'm wondering if the dates are out.

Elaine ..Spain
04-04-13, 16:15
What is the occupation on the marriage certificate for William Stephen Webb.

Val wish Id never started
04-04-13, 16:18
what occupation is on the marriage cert for his father ??

FFYNNON
04-04-13, 16:30
Father listed as farm labourer
John Stephen listed as labourer construction work

Val wish Id never started
04-04-13, 16:34
dont know if you know but ther are another lot of pages on his war records here
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=john+stephen&gsln=webb&msbdy=1885&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=uld&msbdp=2&cp=11&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=2084483&db=BritishArmyService&indiv=1

Val wish Id never started
04-04-13, 16:39
there is a William Webb farm Labourer born 1845 in Ilston Gamorgan with a son John Webb born 1883 same place ???
RG12 4489 33 8

FFYNNON
04-04-13, 16:48
dont know if you know but ther are another lot of pages on his war records here
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=john+stephen&gsln=webb&msbdy=1885&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=uld&msbdp=2&cp=11&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=2084483&db=BritishArmyService&indiv=1

yes thanks, thats on my tree.

PeteW1959
04-04-13, 16:51
That second set of military records has St Pancras as place of birth on one page and Kentish TOwn on another. However in 1883 Kentish Town was a sub-district of Pancras, both of which are now sub-districts of Camden.

So I guess that Kentish Town is looking like his correct place of birth, so I think we can rule out the Hendon one, and we are probably looking for a birth in the Pancras registration district. I have just tried on FreeBMD but it is running really slow at the moment.

Val wish Id never started
04-04-13, 16:54
just that the link you gave is for 7 images this link has 25?

PeteW1959
04-04-13, 17:03
Just found John Foster Webb Jun 1882 Pancras 1b 6, also the John Stubley Webb 1883 you mentioned is Pancras so it could be him.

It is possible that the name on in the index has been mistranscribed from the register (not common, but it does happen) and it is in fact Stephen not Stubley. Only way to find out is to order the certificate.

Val wish Id never started
04-04-13, 17:15
I thought the Stubley one too Pete

FFYNNON
04-04-13, 20:38
I also thought Stubley could be a mis-transcription of Stephen, I have ordered a birth certificate to see what it come up with.

Thanks for your help everyone.

Ffynnon

Elizabeth Herts
04-04-13, 21:33
For elimination purposes here is the baptism for John Foster Webb:

First names:John Foster
Surname:Webb
Baptism year: 1883
Baptism month: Feb
Baptism day: 28
Parish: St George, Hanover Square
County: Middlesex
Page: 446
Birth year: 1882
Birth month: Mar
Birth day: 11
Father's First names: Charles John
Mother's First names: Emma Louise
Record source:Westminster Baptisms- Transcripts
Data provider: Westminster Archives

FFYNNON
04-04-13, 21:47
thankyou Elizabeth.

FFYNNON
12-04-13, 21:14
The birth certificate has now arrived for John Stubley Webb and it definitely says Stubley and has not been mis-transcribed, it gives his fathers name as Stephen.

The marriage certificate that I have for John Stephen Webb has a father listed as William Stephen

The mothers name on the birth certificate is Phyllis Ann nee Jennings.

I have done a quick search for Phyllis Ann Jennings on family search and found a tree with Phyllis Ann Jennings with a father John William Jennings and a mother Eliza Rebecca Stubley.

The birth certificate shows that John was born 31st May 1883 in Pancras, sub-district Kentish Town, in the County of Middlesex.

Are there too many co-incidences here? Am I clutching at straws?

margaretmarch
13-04-13, 11:02
The birth certificate has now arrived for John Stubley Webb and it definitely says Stubley and has not been mis-transcribed, it gives his fathers name as Stephen.

The marriage certificate that I have for John Stephen Webb has a father listed as William Stephen

The mothers name on the birth certificate is Phyllis Ann nee Jennings.

I have done a quick search for Phyllis Ann Jennings on family search and found a tree with Phyllis Ann Jennings with a father John William Jennings and a mother Eliza Rebecca Stubley.

The birth certificate shows that John was born 31st May 1883 in Pancras, sub-district Kentish Town, in the County of Middlesex.

Are there too many co-incidences here? Am I clutching at straws?

I think it is a distinct possibility in the absence of anything more plausible. It would not be unusual for someone to be called by their middle name. Was the the birth reg done by the mother? If it was here she may be just given the name she used for husband rather than his full 'official' name.

What occupation is given for the father on the birth cert?

Margaret

FFYNNON
13-04-13, 15:12
no its not unusual at all, my husband has 3 christian names and has always been called by the middle of the three.

John Stubleys mother registered the birth - Phillis Ann Webb. Stephen Webb was listed as an excavator

Chrissie Smiff
13-04-13, 15:43
This looks like the most likely family for that John in 1891 -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=LNDRG12_132_133-0557&fn=John&ln=Webb&st=r&ssrc=&pid=7844725