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Did fathers have to present at baptisms in 1901?

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  • Did fathers have to present at baptisms in 1901?

    Hi
    a newbie trying to gather my family history but not easy after 30 years of trying. I have a baptism record for my grandmother so to eliminate my great grandmother being a single mother, she has her ' husband' (no marriage found) mentioned on the baptism record so did a fther actually have to be there at the baptism if he is named on it in 1901 and also the registration of childrens births - he is also named on them - I have a feeling my great grandmother had no partner and just made a name up for her childrens father
    any help please
    ps. The church was Anglican (church of England) in 1901

  • #2
    Originally posted by deesam56 View Post
    Hi
    a newbie trying to gather my family history but not easy after 30 years of trying. I have a baptism record for my grandmother so to eliminate my great grandmother being a single mother, she has her ' husband' (no marriage found) mentioned on the baptism record so did a fther actually have to be there at the baptism if he is named on it in 1901 and also the registration of childrens births - he is also named on them - I have a feeling my great grandmother had no partner and just made a name up for her childrens father
    any help please
    ps. The church was Anglican (church of England) in 1901
    Welcome to the forum.

    For a man to be named as father on a birth registration the woman has to present herself as married - whether or not she is married is not proved at the time so if a woman was simply 'living with' the father of her children she could say she was Mrs soandso even if she wasn't.

    I think for baptisms it would be a bit difficult because often the church would be local and people would know if she was a single mother or not.

    The fact that you have not found a marriage does not mean it didn't happen - sometimes the records are not complete.

    If you would like to post the names (not anyone living) then we may be able to help more specifically for you. Give as much detail as you have to aid our searches please.

    Margaret

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    • #3
      Have you found her in 1901 and 1911 to see what her marital condition is?

      If she is married in 1911 she would also have given a figure as to how many years she has been married which would give you a smaller window to search in.

      Remembering: Cuthbert Gregory 1889 - 1916, George Arnold Connelly 1886 - 1917, Thomas Lowe Davenport 1890 - 1917, Roland Davenport Farmer 1885 - 1916, William Davenport Sheffield 1879 - 1915, Cuthbert Gregory 1918 - 1944

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Tom Tom View Post
        Have you found her in 1901 and 1911 to see what her marital condition is?

        If she is married in 1911 she would also have given a figure as to how many years she has been married which would give you a smaller window to search in.
        thanks for reply
        My great grandmother was listed as widow in 1911 and married in 1901 - her name was Minnie Williams formerly Opie with husband John. Daughters Maud born 1893 and died 1911, and Rosina (my grandmother) born 1898

        I was only wondering as I cannot find a death for John for the right age as he was born c 1870 (ref: 1901 census) they lived in Plymouth and were both born in Cornwall but conflicting towns according to 1901 and 1911 (Minnie sancreed in 1901 and tremar coombe in 1911)
        The church of baptism was the large church in Plymouth city centre and not a village church so no-one would know them

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        • #5
          There is a marriage between John Williams and Amelia Ellen Opie 1889,March quarter in Redruth.
          Fran

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          • #6
            There's a Minnie Opie marriage Jun q 1900 Devonport vol 5 page 669 but there are 5 names on the page so either 1 has been missed off or one has been added by mistake.

            Can't resolve the issue just at the moment so thought I'd post it just to see if anyone else can!

            Margaret

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            • #7
              I think this is the 1911 for Minnie and Rosina http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=54464016 and that it has been completed on her behalf so I wonder if she was not in fact a widow but merely separated but thought it was more proper to say widow.

              Margaret

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              • #8
                Originally posted by margaretmarch View Post
                There's a Minnie Opie marriage Jun q 1900 Devonport vol 5 page 669 but there are 5 names on the page so either 1 has been missed off or one has been added by mistake.

                Can't resolve the issue just at the moment so thought I'd post it just to see if anyone else can!

                Margaret
                Looking at the five names I think one of the other women, Amelia Mary Dyer was actually on page 659, so this Minnie married either Charles Ankers or Alfred Currie Hockaday
                Judith passed away in October 2018

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                • #9
                  Do you have your Minnie Opie on earlier censuses. In 1881 I found Amelia Ellen OPIE, widow aged 32 living in Carn Brea, St Illogon, Cornwall with a daughter aged 14 also called Amelia Ellen, born Gwenap, Cornwall. Could it be that this daughter is your grandmother and that she married in her official name but was known as Minnie to differentiate her from her mother?
                  Judith passed away in October 2018

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                  • #10
                    That must be the person I found the marriage for,Judith.
                    Fran

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JudithM View Post
                      Looking at the five names I think one of the other women, Amelia Mary Dyer was actually on page 659, so this Minnie married either Charles Ankers or Alfred Currie Hockaday
                      Thanks Judith, had to get on with some ironing :( - much rather be doing this

                      Margaret

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                      • #12
                        Might be an idea to get the birth cert for your grandmother which will show who her father is regardless of any marriage having taken place.

                        Rosina Williams
                        Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1898
                        Registration district: Plymouth
                        Inferred County: Devon
                        Volume: 5b
                        Page: 268

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fran View Post
                          That must be the person I found the marriage for,Judith.
                          Fran
                          Yes that's what I thought Fran.
                          Judith passed away in October 2018

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think you'll probably find that Minnie OPIE married Charles ANKERS. There's certainly a Charles ANKERS in Stoke Damerel, with wife Minnie, in 1901, and with a visitor, Edward OPIE.

                            Does anyone have either the DFHS CD of the marriages in Plymouth, or a FMP sub? FMP has the images/transcriptions from the Plymouth & W Devon RO, which would include that one.

                            Christine
                            Last edited by Christine in Herts; 01-04-13, 23:11.
                            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Christine in Herts View Post
                              I think you'll probably find that Minnie OPIE married Charles ANKERS. There's certainly a Charles ANKERS in Stoke Damerel, with wife Minnie, in 1901, and with a visitor, Edward OPIE.

                              Does anyone have either the DFHS CD of the marriages in Plymouth, or a FMP sub? FMP has the images/transcriptions from the Plymouth & W Devon RO, which would include that one.

                              Christine
                              from FMP: Parish church of Stoke Damerel, Devonport
                              12 June 1900: Charles Ankers bachelor (age 27) married Minnie Opie spinster (age 24).

                              Minnie's father Edward Opie, farmer
                              Jenny

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by jenoco View Post
                                from FMP: Parish church of Stoke Damerel, Devonport
                                12 June 1900: Charles Ankers bachelor (age 27) married Minnie Opie spinster (age 24).

                                Minnie's father Edward Opie, farmer
                                Now you see my problem
                                ;)
                                I have my grandmothers birth certificate and it states father John Williams a carter, it is also on Minnie's death certficate in 1932, widow of John Williams a labourer.

                                Problem is her death certifcate has her aged 55 (born 1877) but on 1901 cenus she is born 1872 and 1911 she is born 1868 and in different part of Cornwall each time.
                                I assume she either was running from something or someone or just did not know her age or place of birth
                                She told my grandmother (her daughter, she came from redruth with father James Opie) but no concrete evidence just family story from my mother who is now deceased

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                                • #17
                                  I meant to answer the original question... I don't think that they did... In OH's tree, there's a baptism of a child for whom a putative father's name is given - the mother's husband (seems reasonable). However, he was a seaman, so was not around at the time. In fact, I suspect he wasn't around at the time of conception, either, because the baptism was in January 1834 (which is consistent with later records, as being not long after her birth), in St Mary's, Portsea, but he was reported as having "run" from his RN ship in December 1828. The likelihood of a RN seaman being able to come back to a principal RN seaport to live with his family, after having "run" from his ship, seems extremely remote!

                                  Christine
                                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Actually, to be completely pedantic, a mother doesn't have to be present at baptism either!

                                    OC

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                                      Actually, to be completely pedantic, a mother doesn't have to be present at baptism either!

                                      OC
                                      Indeed! And, of course very sadly, sometimes wasn't, having died in childbirth.

                                      Christine
                                      Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                                      Comment

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