PDA

View Full Version : Grandad/Great Grandad



redron
29-03-13, 18:53
hiya all,its been awhile since i last posted but i have missed you all,i have had a bit of a problem finding my Grandad which as caused me a problem with my great grandad,my Grandad was Edward Taylor born 1903 in salford,he married my gran in 1924,and she was elizabeth ( stretton )the only referance i can find is him living with auntie at 34 rossall st also in salford,i have not been able to find his birth which is what hinders me,can any one move me forward please Ron:question:

Janet in Yorkshire
29-03-13, 19:32
Hi Ron, your grandparents' marriage cert would give you the forename of your great granddad.

garstonite
30-03-13, 08:47
the marriage in 1924 was in Pendleton ...St Paul ...registration district Salford
can I ask how you know Edward Taylor was b in Salford in 1903 ?
allan

garstonite
30-03-13, 08:59
there is a George Edward Whitehead Taylor b Jan 1903 baptised 17th May 1903 at St Clement, Urmston ,
Father Edmund / mother Hester
abode 56 Queens Road , Urmston
a total stab in the dark - but - did Edward have any children named Edmund or Hester ?
Urmston FC play in the Salford Football League ...so must be local to Salford ....

Janet in Yorkshire
30-03-13, 09:46
Allan, in the 1911 census return Edward's place of birth was given as Salford. He was at 34 Rossall St Salford, the home of his aunt, Mrs Elizabeth Hughes. There was what could be a possible mar between James Hughes & Elizabeth Taylor Jun qtr 1907 in Salford Reg Dist. Taylor is a fairly common name in that area, so without knowing the name of either of Edward's parents, I can go no further as yet.

Janet in Yorkshire
30-03-13, 09:51
George Taylor, s/o Edmund & Hester, was at home with his parents and siblings in 1911 at 56 Queens Rd Urmston.

Chrissie Smiff
30-03-13, 10:20
Even if his age is right in 1911 Ron and you narrow his possible birth, in Salford, down as far as possible, you still end up with 4 possible births. With a name like Taylor and a busy area like Salford it isn't even possible to narrow down his aunt Elizabeth in an earlier census. An earlier poster was right when they said that his marriage cert would seem to be the only way to go from here to find out his father's name and occupation. Which hopefully might narrow it down considerably.

Edward Taylor to Elizabeth Stretton - Jan-March 1924 Salford ref 8d 35

redron
30-03-13, 13:43
i have his, marriage cert on it george taylor is marked as deceased,with the address as 47 Peel Street Salford i have found him at Rossall street but on the census he is 8,was he also born there,there are some addresses that reapear like 47 Peel St,44 Peel Street and 36 Peel Street,i also know my great gran lived at 47 Peel st as she was still alive when i was kidi also remember her being Elizabeth, possible maiden name Davies Ron

Janet in Yorkshire
30-03-13, 13:53
So, was the father of Edward Taylor named George Taylor, who was deceased in 1924, when his son married? And you think Edward's mother may have been called Elizabeth, possibly Davies before her marriage? have I got that right, please?

Janet in Yorkshire
30-03-13, 14:04
There is a marr reg for a George William Taylor marrying in Manchester in June qtr 1906 - one of the two brides was Elizabeth Davies. Could that have been the marriage ?

Janet in Yorkshire
30-03-13, 14:09
Might this be George & Elizabeth in 1911? ....... http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=1&gsfn=george&gsln=taylor&sx=&f2=&f3=&f8=&rg_81004011__date=1880&rs_81004011__date=0&f17=heywood&f18=&f23=&f20=&f21=&_8000C002=&_80008002=&_80018002=&f15=&f9=&f22=&gskw=&prox=1&db=1911england&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=26584166&recoff=

Chrissie Smiff
30-03-13, 17:10
That one says that they have had 2 children both alive though Janet and they both appear to be listed.

Janet in Yorkshire
30-03-13, 17:36
Chrissie, isn't it children of the marriage that are supposed to be entered? IF this is the right family, then Edward was born in 1903 & the parents married in 1906, so 2 would have been the correct answer. (It's also possible they didn't include Edward because he wasn't at home; either he was "visiting " the aunt, or he could have lived with her full -time - we have no way of knowing?)

Janet in Yorkshire
30-03-13, 17:40
There are birth entries for several Edward Taylors c1903 Salford, but there is also one for Edward Davies.

Chrissie Smiff
30-03-13, 17:41
Oh I see what you mean Janet. So do you think that it might have been a second marriage for one/or both of them perhaps and maybe the step mother said that she had enough on her plate with her own.

Chrissie Smiff
30-03-13, 17:43
It's quite a teaser this one Janet. It's because the names aren't at all uncommon. Perhaps if we could find George in 1901 and see if a possible first wife died between 1903 and 1906?

Janet in Yorkshire
30-03-13, 18:11
It could have been George who was the step-parent??

Janet in Yorkshire
30-03-13, 18:27
Ron, Did your granddad have any brothers and sisters? If he did, do you know any of the names, and were they older or younger than Edward?

margaretmarch
30-03-13, 18:31
There are birth entries for several Edward Taylors c1903 Salford, but there is also one for Edward Davies.

Strikes me that Edward was illegitimate born to Elizabeth Davies before the marriage to George Taylor in 1906 and maybe he was looked after by the aunt because of the other children born to the marriage.

Giving George as his father and simply using the surname Taylor would fit in with making things look right on records etc. if mum was named Taylor - happens all the time!

Margaret

Janet in Yorkshire
30-03-13, 18:42
That is indeed the theory I was hinting at, Margaret! (I think Elizabeth may have been in the Salford workhouse in 1901- she would have been single and 21, so of working age?? Mmmmm) But my only reservation is that perhaps it was a sister of George who was caring for Edward in 1911, rather than a relative of Elizabeth.

margaretmarch
30-03-13, 18:45
That is indeed the theory I was hinting at, Margaret! (I think Elizabeth may have been in the Salford workhouse in 1901- she would have been single and 21, so of working age?? Mmmmm) But my only reservation is that perhaps it was a sister of George who was caring for Edward in 1911, rather than a relative of Elizabeth.

It could still be a sister of George - I'm not suggesting any secrecy or ill feeling just a practical solution while everyone gets settled into the new marriage/family unit or even a simple lack of space at George and Elizabeth's house.
Margaret

redron
30-03-13, 18:49
there is no second name for george on the marriage cert so i assume he never had a second name,i have the davies mixed up she was married to my other great grandad on my grans side on my grandads marriage cert george worked as a dyer,i have found a george taylor born 23/08/1880,and i am almost certain my great gran was called elizabeth Ron

margaretmarch
30-03-13, 19:54
there is no second name for george on the marriage cert so i assume he never had a second name,i have the davies mixed up she was married to my other great grandad on my grans side on my grandads marriage cert george worked as a dyer,i have found a george taylor born 23/08/1880,and i am almost certain my great gran was called elizabeth Ron

Where did you find that birth and what is the place? Does it say George is a dyer on the marriage cert?

Margaret

margaretmarch
30-03-13, 20:03
Can you tell us what age is on the marriage certificate and who the witnesses are please?

I know you have found an Edward Taylor in the 1911 census but as he is not with his father whose name is the only one we have for a check then we need to go back to basics and see if that could be the right one. Do you have any other information about where Edward might have been born - I know you have mentioned Peel Street.

Margaret

Chrissie Smiff
30-03-13, 20:38
I think Margaret is right - the need to go back to basics as I think you are getting confused with the paternal and maternal sides. In 1911 your maternal Grandmother, Elizabeth Stretton is with her parents Charles Stretton and Elizabeth (nee Davies) living at 44, Peel Street, Pendleton - Charles and Elizabeth married in Dec 1893 Salford ref 8d 95

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/RG14_24041_0187_03/23318832?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dEliz abeth%26gsln%3dStretton%26f2%3dLancashire%26rg_810 04011__date%3d1904%26rs_81004011__date%3d1%26f17%3 dSalford%26f18%3dLancashire%26prox%3d1%26db%3d1911 england%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d0%26h%3d23318832&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Chrissie Smiff
30-03-13, 20:55
Did your Grandad Edward Taylor by any chance die in Wigan in Nov 1989? If so, I am wondering if his birth is actually 17th March 1904 and possibly registered in Salford April-June 1904 ref 8d 121. The reason I ask is because the person that I thought was most likely your Grandmothers death was in Wigan in December 1986.

IGNORE this earlier post everyone - I have just found and old thread and these are the likely deaths -

Elizabeth Taylor was born 25th December 1903 and died in Salford Jan 1991 aged 87.
and this is possibly the death for Edward -
Edward Taylor born about 1904 died Jan-March 1967 in Salford aged 63.

HOWEVER - on the marriage cert it apparently gived the ages as Edward 21 and Elizabeth 20!
The other possible death in Salford for Edward would be born 23rd August 1902 (more likely perhaps?) Died April-June 1975 Salford aged 72.

IF the second death i.e. 1975 Salford is correct and he was born in Salford I think you may find his possible birth on Lancs MBD. I have checked the 1902 births and although there are 3 in Salford, only one is in Pendleton. - This would also make the age of 8 in 1911 correct.
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi

Chrissie Smiff
30-03-13, 20:57
Could you tell us their ages on the marriage cert please and the witnesses etc. NOW found on old thread -

the witnesses were James Armitt and Annie Roberts

Elaine
30-03-13, 21:19
And there is this as a bit of a shot in the dark

1901 Census
HUGHES, James
SALFORD, Lancashire
RG13 piece 3712 folio 84 page 16
46 Peel Street going by Pendleton only at the mo for birth, James here is a glassblower

Elaine
30-03-13, 21:38
and another dyer:question:

Marriage: 3 Sep 1904 St James, New Bury, Farnworth, Lancashire, England
George Henry Taylor - 28, Dyer, Bachelor, 122 Plodder Lane
Mary Ann Parkinson - 23, Cotton weaver, Spinster, 24 Hill Field
Groom's Father: David Taylor, Draper
Bride's Father: John Parkinson, Coalminer
Witness: John Edward Parkinson; Elizabeth Lowe
Married by Banns by: George Holden, Vicar
Register: Marriages 1891 - 1910, Page 170, Entry 340
Source: Register at Manchester Central Library

it's a bit of a mammoth one!

Chrissie Smiff
30-03-13, 21:58
there is no second name for george on the marriage cert so i assume he never had a second name,i have the davies mixed up she was married to my other great grandad on my grans side on my grandads marriage cert george worked as a dyer,i have found a george taylor born 23/08/1880,and i am almost certain my great gran was called elizabeth Ron

I'm a bit confused about this Ron - how do you have an EXACT date of birth for this George please?

margaretmarch
30-03-13, 22:17
I am just looking through Peel Street Pendleton for 1901 and found the James Hughes Elaine mentions at post #28 no Taylors in that street so far but will press on. There is Peel St in Salford too so will look at that next.
Margaret

PS completed both Peel street listings and no Taylor families in either.

NB the James Hughes that has an Edward Taylor living with him in 1911 is a Coal Miner

margaretmarch
30-03-13, 22:34
There is a tree on ancestry showing Edward Taylor b 26 August 1903 Salford death in Salford but no date given.

Is that tree yours Ron?

Margaret

Chrissie Smiff
30-03-13, 23:35
I am just looking through Peel Street Pendleton for 1901 and found the James Hughes Elaine mentions at post #28 no Taylors in that street so far but will press on. There is Peel St in Salford too so will look at that next.
Margaret

PS completed both Peel street listings and no Taylor families in either.

NB the James Hughes that has an Edward Taylor living with him in 1911 is a Coal Miner

If you look at my post #25 Margaret you will see that I suspect that Ron was getting his maternal grandmother mixed up with his paternal. The Stretton's are living at 44 Peel St in 1911.

Chrissie Smiff
31-03-13, 00:26
See alteration at post #26

kylejustin
31-03-13, 05:48
is there maybe a way ron, you could post an image of the marriage cert? and maybe you grandfather's death cert? this way we can see the ages he is said to have been, and might be able to track down the right birth cert for you?

vera2013
31-03-13, 08:03
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=James&gsln=Hughes&msbdy=1886&msbpn__ftp=Pendleton%2c+Lancashire%2c+England&msbpn=84951&msbpn_PInfo=8-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5271%7c84951% 7c0%7c&msrpn__ftp=Lancashire%2c+England&msrpn=5271&msrpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5271%7c0%7c0% 7c&msgdy=1908&msgpn__ftp=Lancashire%2c+England&msgpn=5271&msgpn_PInfo=7-%7c0%7c0%7c3257%7c3251%7c0%7c0%7c0%7c5271%7c0%7c0% 7c&cpxt=1&uidh=326&msgdp=2&_83004003-n_xcl=f&cp=11&mssng0=elizabeth&pcat=BMD_MARRIAGE&h=1986548&recoff=9+10+32+43&db=ManchesterMarriagesCRO&indiv=1

This could be the marriage Janet referred to in post 5. Father of Elizabeth is a Dyer but name is John.


EDIT Possibly not the James Hughes of 1911 as this one is a Fireman. Unless he changed jobs.

Vera

margaretmarch
31-03-13, 11:49
If you look at my post #25 Margaret you will see that I suspect that Ron was getting his maternal grandmother mixed up with his paternal. The Stretton's are living at 44 Peel St in 1911.

I know Chrissie - it was just that 'I'd started so I'll finish' :rotfl:

Margaret

Chrissie Smiff
31-03-13, 12:56
I know Chrissie - it was just that 'I'd started so I'll finish' :rotfl:

Margaret

Lol Margaret :rotfl:

I wish Ron would come back and tell us why he is so convinced that his grandfather was born in August 1903 and whether he knows when he died or not. What do think to my additions on post #26? I really wonder if he was actually born 23rd August 1902.

margaretmarch
31-03-13, 14:27
Lol Margaret :rotfl:

I wish Ron would come back and tell us why he is so convinced that his grandfather was born in August 1903 and whether he knows when he died or not. What do think to my additions on post #26? I really wonder if he was actually born 23rd August 1902.

Well done for finding the old thread! I had a feeling we had covered this ground before for Ron and what you have added looks good but needs confirming by Ron.

I think Ron is maybe relying too heavily on what he 'knows' rather than what the records are showing. We do need some confirmation of stuff before we can go or advise any further. More certs are needed I think.

Margaret

Chrissie Smiff
31-03-13, 14:44
I agree Margaret. I am also not totally convinced though that Edward's father's name was George. I suspect he may not have known, or perhaps forgotten as he got older.

The link that Vera put up for the marriage in post#36 looks a possibility. I have been trying to compare the two signatures of James Hughes - the one on the marriage cert link and the one on the 1911 census. There are many similarities and he could have changed jobs. On the marriage cert Elizabeth Taylor gives father as John (or possibly Job). I can't find one with a brother George but it also occured to me that Edward could have been the illigitimate son of one of Elizabeth's sisters. That would explain having to make up a father's name.

margaretmarch
31-03-13, 15:26
I think you are on the right lines on this one - hence the difficulty finding a birth record etc. We shall have to wait for Ron to reply before we can do much more.
Margaret

redron
01-04-13, 08:43
Yes we have been here before last year,i never really got far so i left it alone for a while and done my Grans,my grandad date of birth was 26/08/1903,i know the month and day are correct as it was 3 days before mine the year i am deducting from the wedding cert,i am going into the local history library on Thursday to see what i can find on the microfiche,i applied for his birth cert on the info i had but the registrar said the details were incorrect,i will look on his death cert in the library on Thursday i also think they lived at 3 Burgess Building Salford,which was just off peel street,because later my uncle lived there also Ron

Chrissie Smiff
01-04-13, 09:32
Morning Ron
So can you tell us please when your grandfather died?
p.s. If he died in 1975 in Salford the date of birth given i.e. 23rd August 1902 would fit in well with what you know and make him much easier to trace back.

redron
01-04-13, 20:43
Hiya Chrissie,yes my grandad died in 1975,and my gran in 1991,i never saw or heard of any brothers or sisters of my grandad,its all very mixed up with him,as i have said i am going into the history library on thursday to see what i can get from there Ron

vera2013
02-04-13, 03:21
Ron

If the dob as Chrissie indicated for August 1902 is correct, there is a baptism for Charlestown, St George for an Edward. Father is George and mother Sarah Alice. Father's occupation is a ? Mandler/Maudler. Living ?1/75 New Chapel Street.

There is also a marriage in Charlestown St George for George and Sarah Alice for 1899. Address for Sarah ?1/75 Chapel Street.
George is a ??Moulder/Maudler.

There is another child born to a George and Sarah Alice. Lilian baptised 1905 Carlestown, St George. Father George's occupation is what now looks like Mangler. Address 18 Maud Street.

A tree on Ancestry has Lilian marrying James Armitt (I believe he was a witness at Edward's wedding in 1924). A Lilian Taylor does in fact marry a James Armitt in Salford in 1925

Will try to load the links altogether.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=manchesterbaptismscro&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=george&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=taylor&msbdy=1900&msbpn__ftp=salford%2c+lancashire&msfng0=george&msmng0=sarah+alice&cpxt=1&uidh=326&msbdp=1&_83004003-n_xcl=f&cp=11&pcat=BMD_BIRTH&fh=37&h=1995691&recoff=10+29+30+31+42+43

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2960&iid=40364_635001_2539-00021&fn=Edward&ln=Taylor&st=r&ssrc=&pid=1995691

Well that didn't work. Thats Edward x 4. I will try again.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2962&iid=40364_635001_2536-00106&fn=George&ln=Taylor&st=r&ssrc=&pid=233479

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2960&iid=40364_635001_2539-00063&fn=Lilian&ln=Taylor&st=r&ssrc=&pid=1996360

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=onsmarriage1984&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=lil*ian&gsln=taylor&msbdy=1905&msbpn__ftp=charlestown%2c+st+george%2c+salford%2c+ lancashire&msmng0=sarah+alice&msfng0=george&uidh=326&msbdp=2&pcat=BMD_MARRIAGE&fh=1&h=61276768&recoff=

Vera

Chrissie Smiff
02-04-13, 10:37
Well done Vera - that certainly looks like them. I think the witness is the clincher:)

So to summerise my post above -
Elizabeth Taylor was born 25th December 1903 and died in Salford Jan 1991 aged 87.

Edward Taylor born 23rd August 1902 - Died April-June 1975 Salford aged 72.

vera2013
02-04-13, 10:55
Thanks to you Chrissie. You brought that witness over and it rang a bell when I saw it attached to a tree. Have only given a quick look but can't seem to find anyone of this family in 1911.

Vera

margaretmarch
02-04-13, 11:44
Great work Vera! I think you've cracked it for Ron.
Margaret

Chrissie Smiff
02-04-13, 11:51
I have just looked at that tree Vera and they have a George Inkerman Taylor, born 1900, as a brother of Lilian. No mention of Edward or any 1911 census though. They have a photo of the son George Inkerman Taylor with his family in later years too.

vera2013
02-04-13, 13:00
I hope so Margaret but can't seem to find any of them in 1911. Maybe that is why George was possibly with his Aunt Elizabeth.

Chrissie

In my travels I found a George born 1900. Sarah Alice is a Downie and her father is Alexander Inkerman Downie sometimes known just as Alexander or Inkerman. So could be a brother for Edward.

There is a 1901 census for a George, Sarah and George but it didn't sit quite right. Will see if I can find it again.

Vera

vera2013
02-04-13, 13:13
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1901&h=23345235&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=8912

This looks like a better one than the one I lost for 1901. If I remember there was a Hanway as a witness on one of the weddings.

EDIT or maybe not. Same occupation ?Mangler but George snr born in Yorkshire!

Vera

Chrissie Smiff
02-04-13, 15:56
This is the 1901 they have on the tree for George, Sarah and George Vera, as lodgers -
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7814&iid=LANRG13_3720_3722-0123&fn=George&ln=Taylor&st=r&ssrc=pt_t3055270_p-1721207844_kpidz0q3d-1721207844z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&pid=23345233

Oh, I see that's the same one they have Vera:)

Chrissie Smiff
02-04-13, 16:28
They have got him born in Hippleholme (think this should be Hipperholme) or Lightcliffe in Yorkshire on all the census Vera. Thisis what they have for 1891 when the family have moved to Pendleton. Of course we don't know what certs they have for all this -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=LANRG12_3207_3209-0081&fn=George&ln=Taylor&st=r&ssrc=pt_t3055270_p-1721207844_kpidz0q3d-1721207844z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&pid=22343604

p.s. It did strike me that this George doesn't appear to have a sister Elizabeth. There is an Eliza who would be a couple of years different to the Elizabeth (aunt)

p.p.s. The aunt says that she was born in Pendleton too but the Eliza was born in Lightcliffe Yorkshire on the census.

Chrissie Smiff
02-04-13, 17:07
There is something not quite feeling right, I know birth dates can get mixed though. Lilian Taylor was christened 19th April 1905 but the mst likely death (1997) for Lilian Armitt in Salford gives her birth date as 22nd May.

I'm beginning to think that with such a common name, one or two certs might be needed. Possible even the marriage of the Elizabeth Taylor to Hughes, to check her fathers name and occupation?

vera2013
02-04-13, 17:09
Its difficult to fit all the info about the George, Edward, Lilian with Aunt Elizabeth Hughes (Taylor) in 1911 census. The possible marriage record for Elizabeth Taylor's 1907 to James Hughes, gives her father as John, a Dyer. Maybe there is a later marriage. First child if I remember born about 1910.

Ron was sure about the 1911 census being his Edward living with an Aunt.

I wonder if the nephew was on the side of James Hughes and that one of James' sister's (if he had one) married a Taylor. Still can't find George Inkerman or Lilian in 1911.

Maybe its time to get back to basics again with that 1902 bc to see what it turns up but will take a look at James Hughes to see if there's anything there.

Vera

Chrissie Smiff
02-04-13, 17:21
Sorry Vera, you're right. I had forgotten that you had posted the marriage. On the other hand Ron didn't know about any aunts, so I think maybe he is just guessing about the 1911.

Have to go and cook the dinner now.

margaretmarch
02-04-13, 18:07
Its difficult to fit all the info about the George, Edward, Lilian with Aunt Elizabeth Hughes (Taylor) in 1911 census. The possible marriage record for Elizabeth Taylor's 1907 to James Hughes, gives her father as John, a Dyer. Maybe there is a later marriage. First child if I remember born about 1910.

Ron was sure about the 1911 census being his Edward living with an Aunt.

I wonder if the nephew was on the side of James Hughes and that one of James' sister's (if he had one) married a Taylor. Still can't find George Inkerman or Lilian in 1911.

Maybe its time to get back to basics again with that 1902 bc to see what it turns up but will take a look at James Hughes to see if there's anything there.

Vera

I think Ron likes the 1911 for Edward with an aunt because that's all he can find based on what he has so it fits but maybe there is something else here that doesn't fit e.g. surname for Edward might not be right if he was born before a marriage of his mother to George Taylor.

I agree we need to go back to basics and whatever we can find from the only record we have which is Edward's marriage.

Margaret

Chrissie Smiff
02-04-13, 21:00
Summary of what we KNOW and also what we think is possible - partly from the Ancestry tree and partly from Vera's research.

We know -
Marriage of Edward Taylor to Elizabeth Streeton – (Jan-March) 1924 at St Paul Pendleton (reg district Salford Lancs)Edward, listed as living at 47 Peel St Salford (in 1924) his father listed as George Taylor – deceased (Dyer)
Witnesses James Armitt and Annie Roberts

Edward Taylor born 23rd August 1902 - Died April-June 1975 Salford aged 72

A Lilian Taylor marries a James Armitt in 1925 in Salford

A possible tree connection
That 1901 census is definitely the right one for the George, Sarah ad George I Taylor as the witnesses and the address for Sarah Alice on the marriage cert are the same as on the census. We just have to establish if this is the right family for Edward.

This is the probate of a John Inkerman Taylor that belongs to a POSSIBLE brother of Edward.No clue to family though, only to a wife. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1904&iid=32858_633870_1435-00442&fn=George+Inkerman&ln=Taylor&st=r&ssrc=&pid=15722658

margaretmarch
03-04-13, 08:24
Summary of what we KNOW and also what we think is possible - partly from the Ancestry tree and partly from Vera's research.

We know -
Marriage of Edward Taylor to Elizabeth Streeton – (Jan-March) 1924 at St Paul Pendleton (reg district Salford Lancs)Edward, listed as living at 47 Peel St Salford (in 1924) his father listed as George Taylor – deceased (Dyer)
Witnesses James Armitt and Annie Roberts

Edward Taylor born 23rd August 1902 - Died April-June 1975 Salford aged 72

A Lilian Taylor marries a James Armitt in 1925 in Salford

A possible tree connection
That 1901 census is definitely the right one for the George, Sarah ad George I Taylor as the witnesses and the address for Sarah Alice on the marriage cert are the same as on the census. We just have to establish if this is the right family for Edward.

This is the probate of a John Inkerman Taylor that belongs to a POSSIBLE brother of Edward.No clue to family though, only to a wife. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1904&iid=32858_633870_1435-00442&fn=George+Inkerman&ln=Taylor&st=r&ssrc=&pid=15722658

Have we got a possible birth registration for Edward as that would be the definitive data on his parents?

Margaret

Chrissie Smiff
03-04-13, 10:23
This is the problem Margaret - IF the person registering the death knew his correct birth date and IF he is the one in 1911 and was born in Salford, then we can pin it down to two on Free BMD. From the two quarters - Edward Taylor Sept 1902 Salford ref 8d 70 OR Edward Taylor Dec 1902 Salford ref 8d 181.

On Lancs BMD we get three Edward Thomas births in Salford for 1902 as you can't stipulate the quarter. Two of these are Salford Regent Road and one is Pendleton. My guess is that the 1911 one living as a nephew is probably the one registered under Pendleton.

The main problem seems to be - unless we take it as read that his father was George (as stated on the marriage cert) how would Ron know that this was his grandfather? It would also appear to point to fit with the tree on Ancestry however. Which does look to be a good possibility.

Also, on my summary I forgot to reiterate that on the marriage cert it gives Edwards age as 21 and Elizabeth as 20. I don't think that we have been told yet the actual date of marriage in 1924 but as it was registered in Jan-March then an age of 21 would fit with an August 1902 birth.

margaretmarch
03-04-13, 10:51
Perhaps Ron needs to order certs for all the birth records we have found and give George as father and see what comes back - any that don't match will not be charged for so nothing lost.
The other way might be to contact the Records Office and see if they will have a look at the three we have found and see if any have a father George so that Ron need only order that one.
Margaret

Chrissie Smiff
03-04-13, 11:36
Something else I just remembered Margaret. On the marriage cert of the Elizabeth Taylor to Hughes (possible aunt and uncle in 1911) her father's name is given as John/Job Taylor. The tree on Ancestry has George's father as William Taylor. I also can't find an Elizabeth as a sibling to this George, only an Eliza which doesn't correspond very well.
In a nut shell - at the moment the aunt and uncle in 1911 don't appear to match up with the possible tree connection!!

You could be right about the certs but that would only work IF his father was George a Dyer (or similar). If it were my tree though I would certainly give it a go with the two in the right 2 quarters of 1902.

redron
03-04-13, 13:53
I remember Lilian i used to go and visit her,always called her auntie,i think that you have all been amazing with this search,i understand now why i have had so many problems,i have not got the experiance like you,as i have mentioned i am going in to the local history library on Thursday to look on the micrfiche and old archives Ron

Chrissie Smiff
03-04-13, 15:50
That's great news Ron:) Do you happen to remember whether Lilian was married and if so what her new Surname was? Could it have been Armitt? Even better, do you remember when/where she died please?

redron
03-04-13, 20:06
Hiya all,just to put a bit more into this search on my grans search Elizabeth taylor Charles Stretton is married to Elizabet davies??? married at Christ Church on the 4th October 1893 her address is 22 bright street, Ron

redron
03-04-13, 20:15
forget my last post evan i am getting mixed up crossing my family over

Chrissie Smiff
03-04-13, 20:20
Yes Ron, if you remember we had already established this. See my post #25 (as below)

I think Margaret is right - the need to go back to basics as I think you are getting confused with the paternal and maternal sides. In 1911 your maternal Grandmother, Elizabeth Stretton is with her parents Charles Stretton and Elizabeth (nee Davies) living at 44, Peel Street, Pendleton - Charles and Elizabeth married in Dec 1893 Salford ref 8d 95

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/23...l=ReturnRecord (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/RG14_24041_0187_03/23318832?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dEliz abeth%26gsln%3dStretton%26f2%3dLancashire%26rg_810 04011__date%3d1904%26rs_81004011__date%3d1%26f17%3 dSalford%26f18%3dLancashire%26prox%3d1%26db%3d1911 england%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d0%26h%3d23318832&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)

redron
04-04-13, 16:15
Lilly and James are living at temperance place in the house that we eve,not surentually lived in,lilly when i went to visit her lived on Duchy Road Salford and died in the same house,not sure when she died but i am asking on the local forum

Chrissie Smiff
04-04-13, 19:39
Did yoi find much out today Ron at the Family history centre?

My guess for Lillian Armitt's death would be January 1997 in Salford aged 91. If it is though, and it is the Lilian Taylor that we suspect, it seems the birth date might be slightly out. The death ref gives a birth date of 22nd May 1905. The link to the baptism that Vera found gives a baptism date of 19th April 1905. So maybe she was slightly older than she thought. Otherwise it's the wrong family, though it does seem to fit well with all the details known.

I think James Armitt may have been born 1st August 1903 and died aged 68 in Salford Oct-Dec 1971.

redron
06-04-13, 19:52
I think you have all been amazing with this search,its not been easy and it as turned out a bit comlex,but your continued support as been great,just to let you all know i have applied for my grandads birth certificate with the details you have found also i have sent for the marriage certificate for George,hope i get a positive response with them Ronxx

Chrissie Smiff
06-04-13, 22:53
How did you know which birth to send for Ron? Have you just given the year and stated father George?

When you say that you have sent for the marriage cert of George, I hope you don't mean the 1899 Salford marriage of George Taylor to Sarah Alice Downie do you? Because that one is on Ancestry here -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2962&iid=40364_635001_2536-00106&fn=Sarah+Alice&ln=Downie&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5233479

redron
09-04-13, 18:51
Hiya Margaret,at last i have my Grandads birth certificate,Edward Taylor August 1902,George Taylor as father S A Taylor mother at New Chaple Street salford,Pendleton,you have all been so good hopefully now i can move onxxxxx

margaretmarch
09-04-13, 19:24
Hiya Margaret,at last i have my Grandads birth certificate,Edward Taylor August 1902,George Taylor as father S A Taylor mother at New Chaple Street salford,Pendleton,you have all been so good hopefully now i can move onxxxxx

Does it give the mother's full name and maiden name so we can find their marriage and any other children.

Margaret

redron
10-04-13, 14:00
Does it give the mother's full name and maiden name so we can find their marriage and any other children.

Margaret

Hiya Margaret,Her name is as Sarah Alice Taylor ( Downie )the address is 15 New Chaple Street Salford Ron

margaretmarch
10-04-13, 14:58
How did you know which birth to send for Ron? Have you just given the year and stated father George?

When you say that you have sent for the marriage cert of George, I hope you don't mean the 1899 Salford marriage of George Taylor to Sarah Alice Downie do you? Because that one is on Ancestry here -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2962&iid=40364_635001_2536-00106&fn=Sarah+Alice&ln=Downie&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5233479

Looks like that is the right marriage - yeay!!

Margaret

margaretmarch
10-04-13, 15:02
Hiya Margaret,Her name is as Sarah Alice Taylor ( Downie )the address is 15 New Chaple Street Salford Ron

The marriage record is shown in full per Chrissie's link so either you can download it or I can do it and send by email to you if you PM me the details.

The George on that is shown as occupation Mangler but obviously that could have changed later on.

Margaret

margaretmarch
10-04-13, 15:15
Ron

There is another child born to a George and Sarah Alice. Lilian baptised 1905 Carlestown, St George. Father George's occupation is what now looks like Mangler. Address 18 Maud Street.

A tree on Ancestry has Lilian marrying James Armitt (I believe he was a witness at Edward's wedding in 1924). A Lilian Taylor does in fact marry a James Armitt in Salford in 1925

Vera

So your grandfather had a sister Lilian whose husband was at the wedding and signed as witness to the marriage. All these people can go on your tree now I think.

Margaret

PS see next post - also a brother!

margaretmarch
10-04-13, 15:25
Here's great grandfather George and family in 1901 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7814&iid=LANRG13_3720_3722-0123&fn=George&ln=Taylor&st=r&ssrc=pt_t3055270_p-1721207844_kpidz0q3d-1721207844z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&pid=23345233 and there is another child George J Taylor born 1900 showing on that.

George Taylor's occupation is shown as Cork Cloth Mangler and they are lodging with the James and Jane Hanway who are witnesses at the marriage in 1899 - 15 Chapel Street.

Margaret

Chrissie Smiff
10-04-13, 16:28
Here's great grandfather George and family in 1901 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7814&iid=LANRG13_3720_3722-0123&fn=George&ln=Taylor&st=r&ssrc=pt_t3055270_p-1721207844_kpidz0q3d-1721207844z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&pid=23345233 and there is another child George J Taylor born 1900 showing on that.


George Taylor's occupation is shown as Cork Cloth Mangler and they are lodging with the James and Jane Hanway who are witnesses at the marriage in 1899 - 15 Chapel Street.
Margaret

I think you will find that it's George I Taylor Margaret, as in George Inkerman Taylor. Born 1900 died 1953 in Salford. Married Ellen Soar in 1921 and went on to have 3 children. He is quite well documented with photo's on an Ancestry tree called Taylor - and some very likely living descendants of the children. It might be interesting for Ron to contact them.

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/3055270/person/-1781530718

p.s. The owner of the Ancestry tree has corrected the J to I.

It also appears that nobody could find them on the 1911 census and hence no sign of Edward in their tree.

margaretmarch
10-04-13, 16:39
I think you will find that it's George I Taylor Margaret, as in George Inkerman Taylor. Born 1900 died 1953 in Salford. Married Ellen Soar in 1921 and went on to have 3 children. He is quite well documented with photo's on an Ancestry tree called Taylor - and some very likely living descendants of the children. It might be interesting for Ron to contact them.

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/3055270/person/-1781530718

p.s. The owner of the Ancestry tree has corrected the J to I.

It also appears that nobody could find them on the 1911 census and hence no sign of Edward in their tree.

Thanks Chrissie, I couldn't find George etc in 1911 either but of course we have Edward with his aunt - I wonder if the others were in the workhouse?

Margaret

vera2013
10-04-13, 17:40
Hello Ron, Margaret and Chrissie

Whilst waiting for Ron to get the bc, I looked at the workhouse but couldn't find sight of the family in 1911. I wondered if George died and Sarah Alice married. There is a possible marriage to a Frank N Lyratt/Syratt in 1906 in Salford. There is a link to Wales with this family. Sarah A then died and Frank Nathaniel re-married. Something for the back burner perhaps.

Vera

margaretmarch
10-04-13, 19:03
Hello Ron, Margaret and Chrissie

Whilst waiting for Ron to get the bc, I looked at the workhouse but couldn't find sight of the family in 1911. I wondered if George died and Sarah Alice married. There is a possible marriage to a Frank N Lyratt/Syratt in 1906 in Salford. There is a link to Wales with this family. Sarah A then died and Frank Nathaniel re-married. Something for the back burner perhaps.

Vera

That sound very plausible Vera.
Margaret

Chrissie Smiff
10-04-13, 20:44
I think you might have a point there Vera. This is his marriage in 1922 -
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=2962&iid=40365_293616-00678&fn=Frank+Nathaniel&ln=Syratt&st=r&ssrc=&pid=3534319

and this looks like him in 1911 -
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/RG14_23598_0015_03/23074849?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dFran k%2bNathaniel%26gsln%3dSyratt%26f2%3dLancashire%26 f3%3dSalford%26rg_81004011__date%3d1874%26rs_81004 011__date%3d1%26prox%3d1%26db%3d1911england%26ti%3 d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d0%26h%3d23074849&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

The only fly in the ointment seems to be that although this Alice was born in Pendleton she appears to be 5 or 6 years older than we have her.

redron
10-04-13, 20:50
Hiya Chrissie,i have just had a notice on the local Salford forum from Sue Valentine whos grandfather was George Inkerman Taylor and she as been trying to get info on my grandad Edward,its like buses nothing for ages then loads all together Ron

Chrissie Smiff
10-04-13, 20:55
Oh good Ron:) That's the lady who has the tree on Ancestry. I wonder if she knows whether Sarah Alice married Frank Nathaniel Syratt?

redron
10-04-13, 21:28
i have just had a reply to a thread i have on the local forum from Sue Valentine whos grandfather is george inkerman taylor,how good is that,i have posted a reply and i will get her email addres and see what she as,this is probably the family tree you have seen it has a picture of one of them in later years Ron

vera2013
10-04-13, 21:55
Chrissie

Yes - that age for Sarah A (Alice) in 1911 is way out. Maybe he muddled her up with his sister Alice who was aged 38. Wonder where George and Lilian were in 1911.

Vera

redron
13-04-13, 09:06
This is the response from Sue Valentine who as been searching the Taylor family;
I have been watching your posting for a while now because of the name Taylor but i couldent make a connection until i saw the name Armitt.I have found my dads cousin joe Soar about 2 years ago,he lived with George Inkerman and he told me Georgw had a brother and a sister ( Edward and Lilly )My dads brother and sister were twins ( triplets really but one died ) there names were Randolph and Constance,George Inkerman Taylor and Ellen Soar were third cousins,George,Edward and Lillian great grandmother Ann Allcock/Renshaw/Downie and Ellen Soars grandfather John Allcock were brother and sister,

we are going to make contact on Sunday and have a drink and talk family stuff,what a great surprise to find a contact as i never thought there was any family still about, Ron

Chrissie Smiff
13-04-13, 09:13
That's great news Ron:) I hope you enjoy your meeting:)
Would love to know if she can tell you where everyone is in 1911 and why the children were separated.

margaretmarch
13-04-13, 10:54
This is the response from Sue Valentine who as been searching the Taylor family;
I have been watching your posting for a while now because of the name Taylor but i couldent make a connection until i saw the name Armitt.I have found my dads cousin joe Soar about 2 years ago,he lived with George Inkerman and he told me Georgw had a brother and a sister ( Edward and Lilly )My dads brother and sister were twins ( triplets really but one died ) there names were Randolph and Constance,George Inkerman Taylor and Ellen Soar were third cousins,George,Edward and Lillian great grandmother Ann Allcock/Renshaw/Downie and Ellen Soars grandfather John Allcock were brother and sister,

we are going to make contact on Sunday and have a drink and talk family stuff,what a great surprise to find a contact as i never thought there was any family still about, Ron

Great news Ron. Hope all goes well and you get to see some photos that you haven't seen before - nice to meet new rellies!!

Margaret

vera2013
13-04-13, 13:47
Enjoy your drink Ron. Great news about your new family contacts.

Vera

redron
21-04-13, 10:17
Hiya all,just to let all you nice people who have helped with my grandad seach,i am now in contact with the Sue,she is the grandaughter og george inkerman taylor,she as loads of photos and would you believe it but one of the family who is 90 lives round the corner from me,its been so exciting i will keep posting as to how things goxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxRon

Chrissie Smiff
21-04-13, 10:20
Oh that's great news Tom:) and thank you for sharing the excitement with us:)

margaretmarch
21-04-13, 12:18
How brilliant is that!! Do keep up up to date as it's good to know what we do really does help people find what they're looking for - and more.

Margaret