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kylejustin
24-03-13, 06:22
looking for wills 1859-1874, for southern ireland, cork in particular. does anyone know if there is an index or how to see if there was one left?

liz hutchison
24-03-13, 09:20
Hi give me a name and will have a look on Ancestry for you, LIzzy

Janet
24-03-13, 12:47
Unless your ancestors were protestants and then most probably landowners, finding Irish Wills are very slim. Most Irish people at the dates you are talking about were struggling with issues of famine, landlordism and eviction, not really the sort of people having money! Even the farners were tenant farmers not owners, and most of those rented pocket handkerchiefs of land, which the landlords kept pushing the prices up, often with disastrous results, with many owing so much money that they were often evicted.

There are some wills on both Ancestry and FMP, but not all by any means. The National Archives Dublin would be the place to be in touch with for wills. I have not found a single will for any of my Irish families, even searching through wills at TNA Dublin, the catholic wills were conspicuous by their absence!

Janet

liz hutchison
24-03-13, 15:19
Fine so I will not try to help you, think you are a wee bitty rude with your answer, Lizzy

Elwyn
24-03-13, 15:37
looking for wills 1859-1874, for southern ireland, cork in particular. does anyone know if there is an index or how to see if there was one left?

I agree that a lot of people did not leave wills. In my experience that applied to all sectors of society in Ireland. I have however found wills in the Cork area in the past. E-mail the National Archives in Dublin, with the name of the deceased, the likely date and the place/area. They will let you know if a probate file still exists (many were lost in the 1922 fire during the civil war). If there is a file, there are various fees to be paid depending on whether you want all the file or just the will itself. I think the will on its own is €15 (euros). For intestacy files there’s no will of course but you do sometimes get a document summarising what the estate consisted of.

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/index.html

Janet
24-03-13, 19:49
I belong to the Cork Genealogy Society and suddenly remembered I often get good web sites from them and have come across this one recently but do not know if it will help you much but worth a browse. It all depends what part of Cork you are interested in. I am sure that The National Archives Dublin will definitely help one way or the other.

http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/genealogy/indextoirishwills-corkrosscloyne/

I presume you also know about the O'Keif, Coshe Mange Indexes for Cork which can help with Cork Ancestors and those indexes are available worldwide in various libraries. They are not Indexes for Wills but more like Census Substitutes only available to Cork and Kerry Ancestors.

Janet

kylejustin
24-03-13, 20:33
thank you all for the help and suggestions.

the man i'm looking for might not be found. i have his name as james mack, carpenter of ireland from his daughters 1859 australian marriage. she had a bunch of kids out of wedlock from 1864, then remarried in 1874 to the father under her 1st married name. she claimed her father was james mcauliffe, late carpenter of ireland. she gave her birthplace on both marriages and all the children's births as 'cork'. i know it is her in both marriages as the mother's name appears as honora sullivan.

i took it that james was deceased by 1874, but i don't know where in cork i should be looking. or even which name to look for. the 1st marriage of his daughter and all the births of her children record the name as 'mack'. from 1874 onwards with the 2nd marriage, her death, childrens marriages and their deaths the surname is mcauliffe. and james was listed as an undertaker on the daughter's death. one of the granddaughters marriages recorded the surname as 'mclion'. but james' wife is always honora sullivan, so i don't know.

i had hoped i could find some deaths in cork for the period and try to nail them down. and i do realise if he was alive in 1859, and did die by 1874, civil registration didn't start until 1864. so he could have died 1859-1863 for all i know!

PhotoFamily
25-03-13, 00:21
I wonder given that you have both a profession (that's not farmer, carpenter or labourer!) and a name, if there might be directories to look thru?

kylejustin
25-03-13, 03:53
i know there are directories for cork city, and there is a james mcauliffe, carpenter mentioned. but i dont recall the year that was. and it doesn't seem to be a rare name in cork county either.

PhotoFamily
25-03-13, 04:46
...mcauliffe. and james was listed as an undertaker on the daughter's death.

That was the occupation that caught my eye? Maybe the undertaker was also the carpenter who made the pine boxes? Or I'm just confused as usual?

Janet
25-03-13, 11:45
You will find Slaters/Bassetts Directories on FMP.ie and I have found 63 James MCauliffe in County Cork, most in the 1850's but a few from the years 1822/1824/1826/1835/1843/1845/1849. One was baptised 1829 and convicted Cork City 25 May 1849 but you would need to undertake a thorough search yourself with so many involved.

Janet

PS Whoops pardon the pun re "undertake"!!

Elwyn
25-03-13, 16:35
It was fairly common for carpenters to also be undertakers (for obvious reasons) so the two occupations could well relate to the same man.

kylejustin
26-03-13, 06:34
that's rather creepy actually.......six feet under style family going through my head lol. i had thought the granddaughter made a mistake there on the undertaker thing. the daughter's marriages said carpenter. but i suppose that is a reasonable explanation.

so if that is his occupation, what would he be under in directories? undertaker who makes his own boxes, or carpenter, who made them for undertakers?

PhotoFamily
26-03-13, 14:59
I googled: James MacAuliffe Cork Undertaker Carpenter

Apparently it was common to combine Undertaker with more than one occupation: there were online directories that combined it with drapesmaker, cabinet maker and carpenter. None that combined with that name, however.

The directories were sorted by name, with occupation, if any, listed after.

Elwyn
26-03-13, 20:23
I think in rural areas funerals were low key affairs (financially), with minimum outlay and so your modern undertaker wouldn’t make a living out of that. The local carpenter used to assemble a few coffins in his downtime and have them ready in his store. (You didn’t get a choice from a glossy catalogue in those days). The rest of the time he did his day job. I’d be searching for a carpenter, more than an undertaker. But in rural areas I suspect your average carpenter might not pay to be in a directory, the way an urban carpenter might. He’d likely rely on getting his business by word of mouth.

Uncle John
26-03-13, 21:41
There's a building contractor in Luton to this day which runs a funeral business from the same site.

kylejustin
27-03-13, 04:15
ok thank you for the information. the national archives of ireland said i need details of death to find a will. so i guess i could bite the bullet and apply for a few of the deaths i found. but that is no guarantee any of them is mine, and he could have died 1859-1864. plus i have no idea where in cork the family is from. but it would be nice to eliminate some of the records.