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bubblebelle
08-03-13, 13:00
I've got a headache again!

Please can anyone help me find Eugenie Maria Mary Creton Gardner in 1891 and 1911 census.

She was born as Eugenie Maria Mary Creton Jay in 1851, Westminster

She married William Albert Crouch in 1870 and then there was a messy divorce 1881/2 where she had an affaire with her sister Alice's husband John Gardner b. c1847 and lived in Bury St Edmunds and Abindon Cambs, a gentleman farmer.

She married said Joseph Gardner in 1883 and they had a daughter Louisa Eugenie Josephine Gardner in 1883.

Then I lose her until 1901 where Eugenie and Louisa are boarding in a house in Sussex.

I lose her again until her death in 1914 in Rotherham Yorks. This is correct as it names Louisa on the record she is now married to Joseph Powell

However I can only find a possible marriage of a Louisa Burgeon or Blanche Marney marrying a Joseph Powell and this one is in Rotherham in 1904. But I can't link Burgeon and Gardner

Nor can I find a Louisa and Joseph Powell in 1911 census.

So my query is, is anyone able to help with this mother and daughter.

PS I have seen a 1911 census for a Eugenie Gardner in Anglesey, it is a possible as her occupation is a ladies outfitter and she comes from a family of Drapers etc, but the sister Ellen doesn't fit. She did have a sister Ellen M who was married and died in 1907, or is it possible that this is a sister of convenience?

Any help gratefully received

Elaine ..Spain
08-03-13, 13:06
1891 transcribed on Ancestry as: Eugenie Mana Griderer :rotfl:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1891&indiv=try&h=23924721
Piece: 1014 / Folio: 76 /
Page Number: 8

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 13:09
Oh thank you Elaine off to look now.

Elaine ..Spain
08-03-13, 13:23
PS I have seen a 1911 census for a Eugenie Gardner in Anglesey, it is a possible as her occupation is a ladies outfitter and she comes from a family of Drapers etc, but the sister Ellen doesn't fit. She did have a sister Ellen M who was married and died in 1907, or is it possible that this is a sister of convenience?

You can discard that one - here they are together in 1901
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1901&indiv=try&h=20448831

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 13:30
Again Thanks Elaine. I can now look at the two new children to see if she is with them.

Elaine ..Spain
08-03-13, 13:36
Looks as if Maud Gwendoloine Gardner (born 1885) marries in 1908
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=LMAmarriages%2c&rank=0&gsfn=maud+gwendoline&gsln=gardner&sx=&gs1co=1%2cAll+Countries&gs1pl=1%2c+&year=&yearend=&sbo=1&sbor=&ufr=0&wp=4%3b_80000002%3b_80000003&srchb=r&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=0&h=1310568&recoff=9+10+11

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 13:40
Yes I have found that too, and it looks like they emigrate to Australia, I may have found a passenger list for 1931. I need to take more time on 1911 census.

Elaine ..Spain
08-03-13, 13:41
Struggling to find any of them in 1911 at the moment.

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 13:46
Me too. I have to go out now but thank you for setting me on my way again.

Chrissie Smiff
08-03-13, 16:08
You can discard that one - here they are together in 1901
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1901&indiv=try&h=20448831

I think that one may be the unmarried Eugenia Hart Gardiner that was born Sept 1855 Glouceste Elaine.

JudithM
08-03-13, 16:16
Probably no help to you but just to say Maud Gwendoline (16) and Joseph Montague (13) Gardner were with their father Joseph in Thanet Kent in 1901. Dad shown as aged 52, married, living on own means.
RG13 piece 828 folio 122 page 14

Elaine ..Spain
08-03-13, 16:16
Yes, agree Chrissie. Not what we are looking for! :)

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 17:38
Thank you Judith M, yes I did find that one, mother and eldest daughter in Sussex at that time. Will later give a good look around 1911. I shouldn't complain. I was doing so well with this family up until now. Google is such a wonderful thing. I have named this branch of the family as Mr Selfridge meets Jeremy Kyle.

Fascinating lot.

Sorry Elaine thank you too

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 18:16
Just a quick update I think I may have found Joseph Montague Gardner in Australia. There is a WW1 Australian soldier who died in 1916 that may fit profile, just a couple of years too young.

I believe he may also feature on the 1913 census, but sadly I no longer have Worldwide subscription, however as my cousin lives in Australia she can pick this up.

vera2013
08-03-13, 18:49
http://search.ancestry.com.au/iexec?htx=View&r=5544&dbid=1207&iid=RDAUS1901_100550__0026-00272&fn=Joseph+Montague&ln=Gardner&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5566586

This Joseph a Labourer. Not with Eugenie

Vera

Elaine ..Spain
08-03-13, 18:49
Just a quick update I think I may have found Joseph Montague Gardner in Australia. There is a WW1 Australian soldier who died in 1916 that may fit profile, just a couple of years too young.
.
Definitely looks like him.
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/112640/GARDNER,%20JOSEPH%20MONTAGUE

vera2013
08-03-13, 18:49
(http://search.ancestry.com.au/iexec?htx=View&r=5544&dbid=1207&iid=RDAUS1901_100550__0026-00272&fn=Joseph+Montague&ln=Gardner&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5566586)http://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&=%2c&gsfn=Joseph+Montague&gsln=Gardner&db=auselectoralrolls&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=0&h=5566586&recoff=

http://search.ancestry.com.au/iexec?htx=View&r=5544&dbid=1207&iid=RDAUS1901_100550__0026-00272&fn=Joseph+Montague&ln=Gardner&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5566586 (http://search.ancestry.com.au/iexec?htx=View&r=5544&dbid=1207&iid=RDAUS1901_100550__0026-00272&fn=Joseph+Montague&ln=Gardner&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5566586)

This Joseph a Labourer. Not with Eugenie

Vera

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 19:08
Sadly I cannot access those links Vera, but thank you.

I am pretty sure that Maud went to Australia and now that looks like Joseph, google indicates he was a butcher when he signed up.

However this does not show Eugenie

I found this in 1911, maybe I am clutching at straws, but the date of birth fits if nothing else

Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 884.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1911England&indiv=try&h=2021390

vera2013
08-03-13, 19:26
Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980

Joseph Montague Gardner
Electoral Year: 1913
State: Queensland
District: Herbert
Subdistrict: Thuringowa

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 19:35
Thank you Vera. This feels like the right man.

vera2013
08-03-13, 19:38
I'll look for Maud married to Weston

Saw that E Gardner. Looks like Garner to me and she recorded that she had been married for 22 years although it was crossed out.

Vera

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 19:51
Thanks again Vera

I believe Maud had a son Thomas Montague Barclay Weston who died in WW2, 1942 (google again) born around 1918, I can't find a birth in UK so prob Australia

That 1911 is the closest I found but years married and place of birth doesn't fit

Elaine ..Spain
08-03-13, 19:51
Sorry Vera, can you transcribe your findings rather than copy and paste from Ancestry because of copyright.
I've amended post #19.
Thanks.

susan h
08-03-13, 20:13
I lose her again until her death in 1914 in Rotherham Yorks. This is correct as it names Louisa on the record she is now married to Joseph Powell

However I can only find a possible marriage of a Louisa Burgeon or Blanche Marney marrying a Joseph Powell and this one is in Rotherham in 1904. But I can't link Burgeon and Gardner

It's possible the marriage you mention was between Joseph Powell/Blanche Marney. This 1911 census has Joseph and Blanch Powell living Sculcoates, married 6yrs. Blanche was born Masbro (Masbrough) a suburb of Rotherham. http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/RG14_28629_0067_03/30353953?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3djose ph%26gsln%3dpowell%26rg_81004011__date%3d1880%26rs _81004011__date%3d10%26_80018002%3dblanch*%2blouis a%26prox%3d1%26db%3d1911england%26ti%3d5538%26ti.s i%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26pcat%3dUKICEN%26fh%3d0%26h%3d30353953&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Please can you say how you know Louisa married a Joseph Powell?

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 20:50
Thank you Susan, so I can disregard following that through.

She is identified as such on Eugenie's probate record but that was the only marriage I could find with appropriate names, in the time span 1901=1914. Maybe I need to check earlier. My head is spinning again.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=ukprobatecal&h=2080868&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t52914682_p13520799661_kpidz0q3d1352079966 1z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid

vera2013
08-03-13, 21:07
Sorry Elaine. Will remember for future. Must practice the threads.

http://search.ancestry.com.au/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=2997&path=London.1931.08.164

In case you can't open it

travelling from 'Messines', 7 Eastbury Road, Bushey, Herts with Mrs MG aged 45., Miss E M aged 21 and Mr T M aged 14.

There is also a Maud Gwendoline Weston with Thomas in various addresses in Victoria. No ages given.
1914-24. Thomas is a Traveller, Inspector, Wheat Lumper and a Manager.

Vera

bubblebelle
08-03-13, 21:38
Thanks once again Vera.

I too thought that passenger list applied and thanks re the info of whereabouts. So many of the main branch of this family emigrated if I can't find them I look there.

I think I need a rest from them tonight and come back fresh tomorrow. I know what happened to Eugenie in the most part I think it is just belligerence wanting to put the final piece in the jigsaw.