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Any ideas please Maud Pitts 1917 - Maud McNeil 1948

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  • Any ideas please Maud Pitts 1917 - Maud McNeil 1948

    Any ideas please.

    I have recently found out that my Granny had a sister that we had not known of. It was not a total surprise as my Mum recalled that Granny had spoken of sisters who ‘run away’, and anyone who recalls my dysfunctional ancestors will know that nothing surprises me now.

    So
    Maude Edith Pitts
    Born 20 Jul 1917, father William Richard Pitts, Insurance Agent Mother Eliza Pitts nee Deaney (transcribed Denney on FreeBMD.)


    Then this is where the mystery comes in. She is next found in 1948 when

    Maude D McNeil marries Eric Ericksen in Southampton, a direct ancestor of hers has the marriage certificate, which says she is a spinster and that her father is William Richard Pitts, Insurance Agent.

    So where does the name change come in, we cannot find a marriage before the one to Eric. She also states that William, her father, is deceased when in reality he was hale and hearty and on his second marriage with another child in 1940.
    Does anyone have any ideas as to what may have happened to her. Sadly her ancestor stated that her Nan was reluctant to talk about her early life.

    We are aware of her later marriage in 1969 to ? Ham, but it is the bit between her birth and marriage we are missing.
    I have found Eliza and Williams divorce in the late 1930’s on the National Archive site, can anyone guide me re how I can find whether there is any provision for her on it on ordering or any other suggestions. Forget that, I am having a senior moment, she would have been 20.

    Any ideas gratefully received,

    Thanks Mandy

    PS I will probably disappear for Holby
    Last edited by bubblebelle; 05-03-13, 22:34. Reason: add on
    Bubblebelle x

    FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

  • #2
    Perhaps should add all siblings

    Richard Thomas F Pitts b. 1901 Wycombe d.1906 Paddington

    Alice Esther Emma Pitts b. 1903 Wycombe d. 1978 Stow on the Wold Oxfordshire

    Frederick Wilfred John Pitts b.1905 Uxbridge Middx d. 1918 Hendon Middx
    (20 July 1918 Heart Disease (aged 12) source London Death and Burial record)

    Stanley Joseph Jackson Pitts b. 1908 Teddington Middx d 1924 Chipping Sodbury Gloucs

    Walter W B Pitts b. 1913 Hendon Middx d. 1918 Willesden

    William Charles R Pitts b. 1915 Willesden d. 1988 Colchester Essex
    Bubblebelle x

    FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

    Comment


    • #3
      Technically Maude is too young to be identified on this site. Should be born before 1913 really, unless you are sure she is dead.

      If you believe the marriage cert. then then maybe she changed her name by deed poll, possibly because she was previously living with a man called McNeil who for whatever reason could not or would not marry her (eg he was already married).

      Her 1969 marriage was to William Ham, apparently just a few months after Erik died in Southampton in Q1 that year.
      Last edited by webwiz; 05-03-13, 20:35.
      People: Canton, Wiseman, Colthup, Scrace
      Places: Pembrokeshire, Kent.

      Comment


      • #4
        There are three births between June 1938 and June 1945 of McNeil with mmn Pitts. I can't find a marriage of a Pitts to a McNeil though.
        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes definitly dead and 3 of us trying to track her down and all agreed re postong on this forum, she died in 1992.

          Thank you Chrissie I will check that out.

          That is a possibility webwiz, re name change, also wondered if she went to live with Mc Neils, but for what purpose none of us know. Granddaughter knows of that marriage and explained why death is under Erickson.
          Last edited by bubblebelle; 05-03-13, 21:35.
          Bubblebelle x

          FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

          Comment


          • #6
            No middle name on the death then Bubblebell. She obviously couldn't make her mind up what her first names were at all, never mind her surname lol.
            Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 05-03-13, 21:41.
            Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

            Comment


            • #7
              Not unusual for any of my ancestors, Chrissie. Like my own family, her granddaughter states that her Nan was reticent about her past.

              Been taking a look around at those births. Have also checked electoral roll for 1945 and found a Maud McNeil in Paddington, in what I would think was a tenement as there are 19 other names for that address. Anyone know how far apart Hackney and Paddington are.
              Bubblebelle x

              FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bubblebelle View Post
                Not unusual for any of my ancestors, Chrissie. Like my own family, her granddaughter states that her Nan was reticent about her past.

                Been taking a look around at those births. Have also checked electoral roll for 1945 and found a Maud McNeil in Paddington, in what I would think was a tenement as there are 19 other names for that address. Anyone know how far apart Hackney and Paddington are.
                Hackney to Paddington about 7 miles but very near by London Transport.

                She would not need a deed poll to change her name, just start using a new one and that's fine. She probably lived with McNeil as his wife and it looks like she had children with him so getting one of their birth certificates would get an address and you could check the electoral rolls to see how long she was there with him. A birth cert would also give McNeil's first name and a possible line of enquiry.

                Tenements tended to be flats so more like she was in a boarding house.

                Margaret

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Margaret. Yes a birth cert is the next step, just looking at what was available immediately. Far too impatient ... me.

                  Interestingly on the ancestry transcription it stated the address was a flat. No other McNeil at the address, but of course it was wartime.
                  Bubblebelle x

                  FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Remember 1945 was the year WW2 ended; there was a severe housing shortage due to all the bombing, especially in London. Many people were grateful to be able to rent just a room.(And you had to have all your rooms occupied!)
                    Maud would have been 22 when the war started and only 28 when it finished. If Mr McNeil was of a similar age, odds on that he was in the forces (UK or otherwise) or in war work of some kind. Times were dangerous - you took what happiness you could get; live for today because you might never see tomorrow.

                    Jay
                    Janet in Yorkshire



                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Janet, we crossed with posts.
                      Bubblebelle x

                      FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Do you know Cheree Bubblebell? I have found her on GR AND she has a public tree on Ancestry with a photo of Maud etc!! Have you seen it?
                        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ohhhh where are you Bubblebell? She went out to South Africa twice - once alone and once with a son!!
                          Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you Chrissie and thank you for the PM, I have replied.

                            Re S.Africa, I no longer have worldwide Ancestry, so if you wouldn't mind could you tell me if that is post 1948, as her husband was a seaman. I know it's cheeky but could you PM me the son's name. I will check the immigration lists that Ancestry let me see, but if not there I hope you wouldn't mind.... Thanks ... M x

                            PS I was at my embroidery group.... doing my macrame.
                            Bubblebelle x

                            FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sorry, I've been so busy replying to your PM's that I didn't see you reply. Did the links I sent answer your questions above?

                              Hope the macrame went well
                              Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Well I was hoping that the son would be D or W, but that would be too easy.

                                And I think I managed to sew more than I unpicked, so yes it did go well.

                                Once again thank you for all the help
                                Bubblebelle x

                                FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Don't know if this is any help, but I'll post it anyway.

                                  One of my relatives was married in about 1919 and had a daughter. For some (unknown to me) reason he left his family and 'took up' with another lady. His wife wouldn't divorce him (I found a reference on National Archives site about a judicial separation) and the other lady took my relative's surname. I haven't found any reference to changing it by deed poll yet though. All electoral rolls and their children's BCs refer to the mother with my relative's surname. They eventually married after his wife died in the 1960s.

                                  Could this be a similar scenario with your Maud?
                                  My avatar is my Great Grandmother Emma Gumbert

                                  Sue at Langley Vale

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Is your contact a direct descendent from the marriage with Mr Ericksen? Maud would only have been 31 at the time she married him.
                                    If your contact definitely knows the name of one of the McNeil children I think I would have to get the birth cert to find out Mr McN's first name so that I could see if I could trace him. Wonder if he died in the war, or whether it was just a wartime romance and then he went back to a wife, either here or overseas? Or once the war was over, perhaps the bubble burst and they just couldn't get on and live together amicably.

                                    Jay
                                    Janet in Yorkshire



                                    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Thank you Sue and Janet

                                      Sue, I will have to digest that later, my brain is a bit fogged at the moment, but if I get the gist right it could be possible. If this is the scenario it was wartime, anything is possible.

                                      Yes Janet, the Granddaughter, I have emailed her the names but not got a reply yet. Her mother is also still alive, but as I said, she says that Maud was very reticent about her past, so it feels like there may be a back story.

                                      Chrissie's passenger lists find, whilst acknowledging husband was a seaman.... why South Africa?

                                      Thank you all for your input.
                                      Bubblebelle x

                                      FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Just thought I'd update.

                                        Birth cert arrived today. Yes the mother was Maud, but sadly fathers name was blank.
                                        But there are 2 addresses to persue and a closer look at the 2 other births, sadly funds are not great to just order them.

                                        So thank you, Chrissie and everyone, we have found out a little more, and maybe we can find what happened to Dennis.
                                        Bubblebelle x

                                        FAMILY INTERESTS: Pitts of Sherborne Gloucs. Deaney (Bucks). Pye of Kent. Randolph of Lydd, Kent. Youell of Norfolk and Suffolk. Howe of Lampton. Carden of Bucks.

                                        Comment

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